OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE PROSPECTIVE JURY PANEL)
THE COURT: All right, gentlemen. Mr. Stabbs is
here in reference to the conference we had yesterday.
BOBBY STABBS
having been first duly sworn to speak the truth, the whole truth
and nothing but the truth, then testified as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. DAVIDSON:
Q Mr. Stabbs, it came to our attention yesterday that you had
been talking with some witnesses. We would like to find out
what the nature of your investigation was --
MR. FOGLEMAN: --Your Honor, I don't want to set
any kind of precedent about where somebody is called
in who is conducting a criminal investigation and be
able to be questioned about the nature of what their
investigation is and all that. I don't want to set a
precedent --I don't mind him asking these questions
in this particular case, but I don't think it is
appropriate to --
THE COURT: You're not setting any kind of
precedent as far as I'm concerned. An investigation
is not a subject of inquiry by anybody. You can ask
him who he talked to in this case.
BY MR. DAVIDSON:
Q Who did you talk with that is listed as a witness in this
001443
case?
A I got a call day before yesterday from Jimbo Hale, said he had already talked to my sergeant.
Said David Howard, who is a
deputy sheriff over there who's been to the academy,
and he is serving your subpoenas, I presume,
for your people that you're calling in, had been serving some subpoenas. He went to a Mary Hutson, H-U-T-S-O-N, and a Buddy Lucas' residence.
They made a comment to him that they were tired of being
threatened about court or whatever but -- by the police or
something -- but I understand it was an old case because I went and talked to them, and Mrs. Hutson and Buddy Lucas both said they were never threatened by anybody from y'all's office or anything. Their complaint was an old complaint that happened when this incident first began, dealing with the West Memphis police officers.
Q So the complaint was not against Ron Lax or The Inquisitor
or --
A No, sir. I have a statement here from them that says they
were never mistreated by Mr. Ron Lax, that he was very pleasant
And he was very nice to them.
Q The complaint was actually against someone in the West Memphis Police Department?
A Yes, sir. This was an old complaint. But you had a new
and different deputy going there, and this was the first time
probably ever heard this so he felt that he was compelled to
001444
tell the prosecuting attorney that one of these witnesses said
they don't want to go because they are tired of being threatened and all this kind of stuff. It was nothing about being
threatened about their testimony.
Q Did you talk with anybody else?
A Yes, sir. Back --I done a memo to Mr. Davis back February the 15th, and I talked to a Narlene Hollingsworth and her daughter, whose name is Tabitha Hollingsworth --and I talked to them and they really didn't have anything.
They said a gentleman come over there and talked to them,
but he just asked them questions, are you sure this is what you saw, and they said, yes, that's what it is. Their complaint if for the fact that they are tired of having to come over here.
They don't know Mr. Echols, who they were subpoenaed for.
AIso -- no, I take that back. That was not Hollingsworth. That
was Miss Hutson and them that don't know Echols. They didn't
know why they were subpoenaed. But they were just complaining
to the fact that, they've already got our testimony on the first
case. Why do we have to keep coming back and forth. They can't
afford it. They have to work. That was more or less their
complaint.
But they also swore and stated in here --and it is in my
memorandum to Mr. Davis --that they were never threatened about their testimony and no one has been mistreating them.
Q So there's nothing that Ron Lax or anybody from his office
001445
did that was uncalled for or out of the way?
A Not with the four people I talked to. I don't know
anything about anything else.
Q Could we get a copy of the statements from these people?
A Yes, sir, they are going to be typed up and sent to Mr. Davis and under the Freedom of Information Act I guess you can get anything you want. I'll get it dictated, and it will be sent to him and also a copy to my lieutenant so whatever you have to do to get it, you can get a copy of it, yes, sir, in my opinion.
EXAMINATION
BY MR. FOGLEMAN:
Q Did Miss Hollingsworth indicate there had been some threats by some unknown parties?
A The threats she was talking about is her kids going to school.
She says she's tired of her kids going to school and
they --and I asked her who they was and she never could give me
who they were -- talking about their kids, that somebody is
going to get hurt and somebody is going to die over this for
their children testifying in court.
But nobody ever give me any names or anything. That's
just, I guess what you say, kids would say in school, like you
shouldn't be going and saying anything to the police or anybody
else. I mean, that's a problem we have now.
THE COURT: Did any of those people indicate that
001446
anyone else that had interviewed them had represented
themselves to be FBI agents, police officers or anyone
in authority other than in an investigative capacity
for a lawyer?
THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. Ms. Hollingsworth stated
that the guy that came there --he said he was FBI.
Then he said he was an attorney for Damien and then he
said he was an investigator. This is what Ms.
Hollingsworth's saying. She wasn't real clear on all
that stuff, and I didn't add that into my memo because
I didn't think it was really that appropriate.
MR. FOGLEMAN:
Q It is in your notes?
A Yes, it is. I didn't want to make a mountain out of a
molehill, is what I'm trying to get at, I guess.
EXAMINATION
BY MR. DAVIDSON:
Q In your opinion as an investigator did you think there's
anything to this?
MR. FOGLEMAN: I object to that.
THE COURT: I'm going to sustain the objection to
what he thinks. He compiles the information. It is
for someone else to determine what's there.
BY MR. DAVIDSON:
Q But the initial complaint was actually against Mr. Durham
001447
and someone assumed it was against Mr. Lax, is that right?
A Yes. That's what I'm saying. I don't know. But that was
the initial complaint.
Q Mr. Durham is one of the investigators for the West Memphis
police Department?
A Yes, sir.
MR. FOGLEMAN: I would like the record to reflect
that this witness that has complained is also one of
these witnesses who gave the police a statement
incriminating not even one of these defendants --I
believe it was Jessie Misskelley, Junior -- and who
changed his statement after being contacted by Mr.
Lax, the investigator for Damien, and recanted his
former statement.
MR. DAVIDSON: Which one are you saying now?
MR. FOGLEMAN: Which one what?
MR. DAVIDSON: Repeat that again.
MR. FOGLEMAN: I don't know that I can repeat
what I said. I don't remember exactly what I said.
MR. PRICE: Could the court reporter read it
back?
THE REPORTER: (READING) I would like the record
to reflect that this witness that has complained is
also one of these witnesses who gave the police a
statement incriminating not even one of these
001448
defendants --I believe it was Jessie Misskelley,
Junior --and who changed his statement after being
contacted by Mr. Lax, the investigator for Damien, and
recanted his former statement.
MR. PRICE: Which witness are we referring to?
MR. FOGLEMAN: Buddy Lucas.
MR. DAVIDSON: I would like to ask one further
question.
EXAMINATION
BY MR. DAVIDSON:
Q Officer, did you ask Ms. Hollingsworth not to talk to
anybody else about this matter?
A No, I did not.
Q Did you say you would rather that she didn't?
A No, I did not. The only person I told -- or mentioned he didn't have to talk to anybody -- is when I was talking to Buddy
Lucas because he went on about this deal when they first got it
and I told Buddy Lucas, I said, Buddy, you don't even have to
talk to me about coming here to interview you if you don't want
to. You don't have to talk to the police unless you're under
arrest. You just have to give your name and whatever like that I said if you don't want to talk to somebody, you don't have to that is your right not to talk to somebody.
And that's the only time -- like I told him, I said, you
don't have to talk to me right now if you don't want to. But
001449
I've never told him or anybody else they didn't have to talk or
they should not talk to anybody else.
I did tell Ms. Hollingsworth the next time somebody comes
and identifies himself as a police officer -- I have a badge an
I showed her my badge and I showed them my I.D. --I said at
least get some identification of who you're talking to and that
is the only thing I said anything like that.
