FOGLEMAN: For the record, you’re the same Detective Ridge whose previously testified?

RIDGE: Yes sir.

FOGLEMAN: Detective Ridge, I want to, uh, direct your attention to June the 3rd, 1993. Did you participate in some questioning of the defendant, Jessie Misskelley, Jr.?

RIDGE: Yes sir, I did.

FOGLEMAN: And, uh, were you present when Detective Allen advised him of his rights?

RIDGE: Yes sir, I was present.

FOGLEMAN: I want to show what’s been introduced as State’s Exhibit 74 and ask if you recognize that.

RIDGE: Yes sir, I do.

FOGLEMAN: And did you sign that as a witness?

RIDGE: Yes sir, I did.

FOGLEMAN: Was any force, promises, theats or coercion used to get the defendant, uh, to sign the form, initial the rights or to make any statements?

RIDGE: No sir.

FOGLEMAN: Uh, I also wanna show you what’s been introduced as State’s Exhibit 104 and ask if you recognize that.

RIDGE: It’s a subject description form.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: For identification.

FOGLEMAN: Alright, for identification purposes. And is part of that form in your handwriting?

RIDGE: Yes sir.

FOGLEMAN: And what part is that?

RIDGE: The scars, marks and tattoos portion of the form.

FOGLEMAN: And where did you get that information?

RIDGE: From the defendant, Mr. Misskelley.

FOGLEMAN: Your Honor, at this time we would offer State’s Exhibit 104.

STIDHAM: Hasn’t this already been introduced?

FOGLEMAN: It was introduced for identification purposes.

STIDHAM: Oh…sorry. No, no objection your Honor.

THE COURT: Alright, it may be received without objection. You may exhibit to the jury.

FOGLEMAN: Before I continue on the questioning, I want to back up a minute. At the crime scene, Detective Ridge, were there—what efforts, if any, were made to keep the bystanders from seeing the, the victims and the injuries they suffered?

RIDGE: Okay, before the bodies were actually removed from the water, everybody that was not directly concerned with the case, the detectives assigned to that case, were moved away from the crime scene and tape was put up to keep them away.

FOGLEMAN: Alright. And then after, uh, Michael and Stevie and Chris were removed from the water, was anything done to keep any, uh, other people that were, non-police from, from seeing?

RIDGE: Yes sir, their bodies were covered with black plastic.

FOGLEMAN: Alright. Now back to June the 3rd, um, after Detective, uh, Durham, uh, talked to the defendant, did you have some conversations with the defendant?

RIDGE: Yes sir, I did.

FOGLEMAN: Alright, did somebody else have some, was, was, was somebody else with you?

RIDGE: Yes sir.

FOGLEMAN: Alright, and who was that?

RIDGE: Inspector Gary Gitchell.

FOGLEMAN: Alright, and during this conversation that you and Inspector Gitchell had with the defendant, now was any force, promises, threats or coercion used to get him to make any statements to you?

RIDGE: No sir.

FOGLEMAN: Um, did the defendant during this time—about what time did this start, by the way?

RIDGE: Approximately 12: 40, after I came back from lunch.

FOGLEMAN: Alright, and during the time that, uh, you and Detective, uh, Gitchell were having this conversation with the defendant, did you do anything to preserve your conversation with him?

RIDGE: At a point, the tape recorder was—

FOGLEMAN: I’m talking about before the tape recorder.

RIDGE: I took some notes.

FOGLEMAN: Okay. Alright, and was there any reason why you weren’t tape recording immediately?

RIDGE: Uh, it wasn’t determined that he was a suspect at this point.

FOGLEMAN: Alright. And, what did you think he was?

RIDGE: Uh, a potential witness.

FOGLEMAN: As, as far as, what type, what type of witness.

RIDGE: A reluctant witness…

FOGLEMAN: Well, I didn’t mean…

RIDGE: …to the homicide or to activities of Damien Echols.

FOGLEMAN: Okay. Alright, and did he—what if anything did he tell you, uh, during this conversation before the tape recording, uh, in regard to anything he might know about the homicides?

RIDGE: Okay, he had told us that he had attended some satanic cult-type meetings, he was a member of a satanic cult-like group.

FOGLEMAN: What did he tell you about that?

RIDGE: Uh, that they had met in various parts of the state, uh, generally on a Wednesday, uh, generally late into the evenings, even into the night, uh, that boys along with girls would attend. There would be sessions of, uh, sex, uh, orgies as he called them, uh, that dogs and animals had been killed, and in fact those animals, portions them had been eaten by the members. He talked about some, uh, phone calls he had received, uh…

FOGLEMAN: From who?

RIDGE: From Jason Baldwin where he says he heard the voice of Damien Echols in the background.

FOGLEMAN: Alright, what did he tell you that, about those phone calls?

RIDGE: Okay there were three phone calls. One was in the day before the murders, he explained. One was the morning of the murders, he explained. One was the night after the murders that he explained.

FOGLEMAN: And in the, did he say, what did he say, uh, that you recall about the phone call the day before the murders?

RIDGE: Uh, something to the effect that they were going to go somewhere and get some girls the next day or something to that effect.

FOGLEMAN: Okay. Alright, do you have your notes there?

RIDGE: I can probably find them.


RIDGE: Yes sir, I have them.

FOGLEMAN: Alright, and do you have notes related to that phone call the day or night before the murders? (pause) I’m looking at the first page.

RIDGE: I’m on page four.

FOGLEMAN: I’m looking at page one.

RIDGE: Okay, stated that he had received a call from Jason Baldwin the night before the murders.

FOGLEMAN: Okay, and what did he tell you?

RIDGE: Okay, at that time they were going to go out and get some boys and hurt them.

FOGLEMAN: Alright, and, and then what did he tell you, about Damien in the background?

RIDGE: Alright, stated he received a call from Jason, Damien, in the background, wanted him to go with them, said they planned something, heard Damien say that Jason ought to tell that they were going to get some girls or something.

FOGLEMAN: Alright, and what, then what did Jessie tell you?

RIDGE: Jessie said he knew what they were going to do.

FOGLEMAN: Alright, and did he say anything in this conversation about a briefcase?

RIDGE: Yes sir, he did.

FOGLEMAN: Alright, what did he say about the briefcase?

RIDGE: Okay, he said that the briefcase was something that showed up at these meetings that they would have. The briefcase contained a couple of guns, some marijuana, I believe some cocaine. And that there was a picture in that, in the briefcase, and that he saw pictures of the boys that were killed.

FOGLEMAN: Alright. Did he say anything about um, what um, Damien had, or any of the people had had in regard to, uh these boys?

RIDGE: Okay, he said that Damien had been stalking these boys, or watching them.

FOGLEMAN: Alright, how about the um, do you recall what if anything he said about the phone call that came the morning of the murder?

RIDGE: I'm not sure if it's in my notes or not, but he just, he referred to that he received a phone that morning, the morning of the murders and that they wanted him to go with them.

FOGLEMAN: Alright. How about after dark, after the murders?

RIDGE: Yes sir. He said that he heard Damien in the background, and that he heard him say "We did it, we did it. What are we going to do now? What are we going to do if somebody saw us?"

FOGLEMAN: Alright. Now during the course of these conversations, or this conversation with the, uh, defendant, um, was anything shown to the defendant?

RIDGE: Yes sir.

FOGLEMAN: Alright, and what was shown to him?

RIDGE: There was a picture that Inspector Gitchell showed him.

FOGLEMAN: Okay, and what was that a picture of?

RIDGE: One of the victims.

FOGLEMAN: I want to show you State's Exhibit 76 and ask if you can identify that?

RIDGE: That's the body of Christopher Byers.

FOGLEMAN: Alright. But the picture itself.

RIDGE: It's a Polaroid photograph.

FOGLEMAN: Is that the photograph that Inspector Gitchell, or one like it –

RIDGE: Yes sir.
FOGLEMAN: -- showed him.

FOGLEMAN: Your Honor, we would offer State's Exhibit 76.

STIDHAM: No objection, your Honor.

THE COURT: Alright, it may be received without objection.

CROW: Your Honor, may we approach the bench please?



CROW: (Inaudible whisper)

THE COURT: Oh yeah, okay, yeah sure, well you've already, you know, you've already made your record on that.

CROW: I want to make sure…

THE COURT: Oh you're not

CROW: …to raise everything, every issue

THE COURT: You don't, you don't have to re-raise it.

CROW: (Inaudible whisper)


STIDHAM: Thank you, your Honor.


FOGLEMAN: May I exhibit your Honor?


FOGLEMAN: And what were the circumstances in which this photograph was shown to the defendant?

RIDGE: Okay, the defendant had been talking, he had gotten to where he had almost not been talking, he'd slowed down on giving any information. At which time Inspector Gitchell left the office and came back with this picture.

FOGLEMAN: Okay, and what did he do?

RIDGE: He showed the picture to Jessie.

FOGLEMAN: And uh, what was the defendant's response.

RIDGE: He grabbed the picture, he set back in his seat, he became fixated on this picture, he just, just had it in his hand, you could tell he, it was tense, he just intently looked at this picture.

FOGLEMAN: And then what happened?

RIDGE: He wasn't answering any more questions, he just, like he was so fixated on the picture that he wouldn't, he wasn't talking, wasn't saying anything just looking at the picture. We had to physically take the picture away from him or just pull it out of his hands. And laid it down on the desk and he just continued to look at the picture.

FOGLEMAN: Alright. And then what happened?

RIDGE: Uh, Inspector Gitchell actually moved the picture out of his sight and we continued to talk to him.

FOGLEMAN: Alright. And um, (pause) alright now at some point did you leave the room?

RIDGE: Yes sir.

FOGLEMAN: Alright. Now before you left the room, what else occurred?

RIDGE: Okay, a tape recorder with a short session was played where the defendant could hear it.

FOGLEMAN: Alright, where you said a short session, what –

RIDGE: Just a very few words were said, by a young person on this tape.

FOGLEMAN: Do you know whether or not the person's voice was somebody that the defendant was acquainted with?

RIDGE: Yes sir, I think he is, yes.

FOGLEMAN: Alright. In fact, did the defendant say something about where he had been, like the night before or something?

RIDGE: I was made aware of where he had been –

FOGLEMAN: You weren't present –

RIDGE: -- the night before.

FOGLEMAN: You don't remember the defendant saying anything about that?

RIDGE: Uh, no sir.

FOGLEMAN: Okay. Now, what was your purpose in leaving the room?

RIDGE: Okay. We had just played this tape, and Jessie says something to the effect that uh, I want out of this, I want to tell you everything, at which time we started asking him some more questions. We asked about this third telephone call, that's when that third telephone call came in, and he tells us about what Damien had said in the background. And I felt this was extremely good information and that uh, we were at the verge of getting a good witness. And I wanted, I just decided it was time to take a break and I wanted to inform Sgt. Allen of this information.

FOGLEMAN: Alright. Now, up to this point, um, did you have any reason to, to, to um, to suspect that the defendant was involved?

RIDGE: No sir.

FOGLEMAN: Alright. Had y'all uh...what was the demeanor or the atmosphere when y'all were questioning him?

RIDGE: It was, mostly we were just as nice as we could be. We didn't uh, we weren't hollering, we weren't loud, it was just as though I'm talking to you right now.

FOGLEMAN: Alright, well you said mostly, wha –

RIDGE: That's all. I mean, there, there wasn't anything except the incident with the picture that you could see there was stress.


RIDGE: The incident with the tape recorder, when he reacted like I want out of this, I want to tell you everything.

FOGLEMAN: Okay. Now, was there something about a circle?

RIDGE: Uh, yes sir.

FOGLEMAN: Alright, was that before you left the room or after you returned?

RIDGE: That was before I left the room.

FOGLEMAN: Alright. What was, what was that about?

RIDGE: Okay, there was a, it's an interrogation technique that Inspector Gitchell used. It's basically a circle that would be drawn on a piece of paper, there were dots all over the paper, uh, where are you in this circle. That is a question that was asked of the defendant. Are you a witness, are you a defendant, what are you?

FOGLEMAN: Okay. Alright, now, um. After you went out, uh, of the room, what happened next?

RIDGE: Okay, I was talking with Sgt. Allen about what he had told us about the telephone call and what he had heard Damien say in the background, and Inspector Gitchell came out and informed me that he had just told him he was there when the boys were killed.

FOGLEMAN: Alright. Now at, from that point on, how did you preserve the conversation?

RIDGE: Everything that was said from that point on during the interviews was taped.

FOGLEMAN: Alright. Now, during the, the, um, the portion where the conversation was tape recorded, did the defendant provide some information about some tennis shoes?

RIDGE: Yes sir, he did.

FOGLEMAN: Alright. And were these his shoes or somebody else's shoes?

RIDGE: He said they were his shoes.

FOGLEMAN: Alright. And do you remember what kind of shoes they were?

RIDGE: He said they were blue and white Adidas tennis shoes.

FOGLEMAN: Alright.

FOGLEMAN: Did he say what he had done with the shoes?
RIDGE: Yes sir, he did.
FOGLEMAN: Alright, what did he say he had done with the shoes?
RIDGE: He said those were the shoes that he had worn the night of the murders.
FOGLEMAN: And what did he say he had done with them?
RIDGE: He said that he gave those shoes to Buddy Lucas.
FOGLEMAN: Alright. I wanna show you what I've marked for identification purposes as State's Exhibit 95 and ask if you can identify those. (crinkle) You can open the bag.
RIDGE: Yes sir, I can identify them.
FOGLEMAN: Alright, and what are those?
RIDGE: Uh, these are the shoes recovered from Buddy Lucas.
FOGLEMAN: And what kind of shoes are they?
RIDGE: They are blue and white Adidas tennis shoes.

FOGLEMAN: Your Honor, we would offer State's Exhibit 95.

STIDHAM: No objection, your Honor.

THE COURT: Alright, it may be received without objection. You may exhibit.

FOGLEMAN: I don't -- they can look at them later, I don't want to pass around tennis shoes. I don't have any further questions at this time, your Honor.

STIDHAM: These, uh, tennis shoes, Officer Ridge, were they sent to the Crime Lab for analysis?
RIDGE: Yes sir, they were.
STIDHAM: Did they come back with anything positive or anything linking Mr. Misskelley to the scene of the crime?
RIDGE: No sir.
STIDHAM: Let's talk about uh, the interrogation on June the 3rd. Um, some point Officer Allen picked up Mr. Misskelley --
RIDGE: Yes sir.
STIDHAM: -- that morning, brought him to the department about what time?
RIDGE: I think he picked him up at about 9:30.
FOGLEMAN: Your Honor, your Honor.
STIDHAM: When did you begin to --
FoGLEMAN: Nevermind, he's going on. Nevermind.
STIDHAM: When did you begin to take part in the interrogation?
RIDGE: Uh, it was about, 10:30 I guess. I can look at the Subject Description form, the time is at the bottom of it when I walked into the room.
STIDHAM: Okay. Now when you walked into the room you begin to ask Mr. Misskelley questions about participation in a cult?
RIDGE: Yes sir.
STIDHAM: Okay. And you also begin to ask him about his whereabouts on May the 5th, is that correct?
RIDGE: Yes sir, that's it.
STIDHAM: So is it safe to assume that at this point in time Mr. Misskelley is a suspect?
RIDGE: No sir.
STIDHAM: You mean to tell me, Officer, that you got him down at the police department you're asking him where he was on May the 5th and he's not a suspect?
RIDGE: Yes sir, that's correct, he was not a suspect at that point.
STIDHAM: So you were just bringing in everybody off the street and asking them these same questions?
RIDGE: Brought in very many people off the street and asked them questions about their whereabouts to see if they could remember that date.
STIDHAM: And what happens if somebody couldn't remember, did that mean they're become a suspect, or...
RIDGE: Not necessarily, no sir.
STIDHAM: Well, tell the jury what the basis of this cult stuff is. You'd received some information, I assume.
RIDGE: Yes sir, we'd received some information that a cult-like group existed.
STIDHAM: Okay. And did you also receive some information that Jessie had been to one of these meetings?
RIDGE: Yes sir.
STIDHAM: And where was this meeting held?
RIDGE: Somewhere in the area of Turrell, is what I understand.
STIDHAM: Okay, were you ever able to locate this spot?
RIDGE: I was taken to a spot where it was supposed to have taken place, yes sir.
STIDHAM: Did you find any upside-down crosses, or anything that would suggest that this was a cult place, or, uh, what, anything. Did you find anything there?
RIDGE: No sir.
STIDHAM: Um, did that surprise you that you didn't find anything?
RIDGE: No sir.
STIDHAM: Now, later on, um, Jessie in this story that he tells you, he tells you several people were in this cult with him? Is that correct?
RIDGE: Yes sir.
STIDHAM: Were you able to confirm any of these people as being members of this cult?
RIDGE: No sir.
STIDHAM: Did you ask these people whether they were in this cult?
RIDGE: Yes sir, I did.
STIDHAM: Did you also find out that some of these people that Jessie were naming were, were possibly enemies of his --
RIDGE: I don't --
STIDHAM: -- people that he had conflicts with in the past?
RIDGE: I wasn't aware that he had had conflicts with them, no sir.
STIDHAM: Was there anything found at the crime scene to indicate uh, that this was a cult killing, any upside-down crosses, or carvings on a tree with 666, anything that would make this look like a cult killing?
RIDGE: Well, sir, I'm not an expert on the occult-type killings.
STIDHAM: Okay. Well, didn't the police department receive some information and anonymous tips through America's Most Wanted that, and other tips anonymously that this was a cult killing?
RIDGE: Yes sir, we had received information to that effect.
STIDHAM: So y'all were looking into that --
RIDGE: Yes sir.
STIDHAM: -- that angle.
RIDGE: Yes sir.
STIDHAM: Okay. And so someone had told you that Damien was involved in this kind of stuff, is that a correct statement?
RIDGE: Yes sir, it is.
STIDHAM: So, is it safe to assume that Damien was your prime suspect at this point, on June the 3rd?
RIDGE: He was one of several suspects, yes sir.
STIDHAM: Did you ever find any people who had ate dogs, or, or uh, cooked dogs or skinned dogs with Jessie, er, like he said in this story that he told you?
RIDGE: (makes breathing noise)

FOGLEMAN: Your Honor, I think that would call for the officer to draw a conclusion about whether or not somebody ate a dog or not. I don't think it's a proper question.

THE COURT: Rephrase your question. You might ask him did he ever find anybody that he could confirm, or what have you. You're asking him, you're asking him to speculate on what he did find the way you phrased the question, so rephrase it.

STIDHAM: Did you find anything, any confirmation whatsoever, that there was a cult or Jessie was involved in a cult.
RIDGE: Yes sir, I did.
STIDHAM: And, what is that?
RIDGE: Okay, a young man by the name of Ricky Climer, in another state, that is separated from this group --
STIDHAM: Okay, I don't want you to tell me what - what he - what this person has said, because there may be an objection to that later on. But anybody else, besides Mr. Climer?
RIDGE: Yes sir, there were other people talked to.
STIDHAM: Now, um, this information about this cult meeting in Turrell, didn't find anything there?
RIDGE: No sir, I didn't.
STIDHAM: Did this person who told you about the meeting tell you about a certain individual who was there?
RIDGE: Yes sir.
STIDHAM: What was that individual's name?
RIDGE: A Michael Shaun Webb.
STIDHAM: You ever been able to determine where this person is?
RIDGE: No sir, not yet.
STIDHAM: Have you ever been able to determine whether or not he even exists?
RIDGE: Yes sir, he does exist.
STIDHAM: But you don't know where he's at?
RIDGE: I know he's somewhere in Memphis.
STIDHAM: Okay. Now you testified earlier in a different hearing, Officer Ridge, that uh, there was rumors in West Memphis that were running rampant, that Damien, uh, was involved in these murders. Is that correct?
RIDGE: There were rumors that Damien was involved, yes sir.
STIDHAM: Okay, and those were pretty common throughout West Memphis and Marion?
RIDGE: Yes sir.
STIDHAM: Now, you stated that there was a time when you decided that it was important to turn on the tape recorder --
RIDGE: Yes sir.
STIDHAM: -- and record the, um, information that Mr. Misskelley was giving you. Why didn't you record anything up to that point?
RIDGE: (stammers a little) -- it wasn't discovered he was a suspect until he said he was there at the time of the murders.
STIDHAM: That's when you decided it was important to record all of it then?
RIDGE: Yes sir.
STIDHAM: Okay. Did you write down everything and every question that you asked him prior to turning on the tape recorder --
RIDGE: No --
STIDHAM: -- In other words, does your notes reflect everything?
RIDGE: Everything? No sir, it does not.
STIDHAM: Can you remember everything that was asked and answered?
RIDGE: Can't remember everything, no sir.
STIDHAM: Now, um, initially, Mr. Misskelley denied any involvement whatsoever in this, didn't he?
RIDGE: Yes sir, he did.
STIDHAM: Did he also tell you that he was roofing that day?
RIDGE: Yes sir, he did.
STIDHAM: On June the 3rd, did you make any attempt whatsoever to verify this?
RIDGE: On June the 3rd, no sir.
STIDHAM: Prior to making any other arrests in this case did you verify that?
RIDGE: Before making other arrests? No sir.
STIDHAM: Okay. Now, um, Officer Ridge, the photograph that was just introduced into evidence depicting one of the boys' bodies, that was shown to Jessie?
RIDGE: Yes sir.
STIDHAM: And this was immediately prior to him admitting and telling you this story about being present when the boys were killed?
RIDGE: Shortly before, yes sir.
STIDHAM: Okay. And also, this business about the circle with the dots in the middle and the dots on the outside, that happened right before he gave you this story about being present when the boys were killed?
RIDGE: Yes sir.
STIDHAM: And also this little tape recorded message from, from uh, with the little boy's voice on there, that was immediately before, uh, his admitting that he was present at the scene, is that correct?
RIDGE: Few minutes before, yes sir.
STIDHAM: Why did you guys do that? Why did you do the circle, why did you do the tape, why did you, uh, show him the photograph?

FOGLEMAN: Your Honor. Excuse me. Your Honor, Detective Ridge has testified that Inspector Gitchell did that. I think the appropriate person to ask why somebody did something would be Inspector Gitchell.

STIDHAM: Judge, he was there.

THE COURT: Well if he knows why, I'm gonna let him testify. If, if you really want him to answer that question, I'm gonna let him do it. If he knows why and...

STIDHAM: There had to be a reason to do that.
RIDGE: There are times when Jessie would not be talking, he's, he's getting slower with information, he's, he's telling us things that are just, it's over and over the same thing. Those techniques are used to evoke a response.
STIDHAM: So you did these things, you and Inspector Gitchell did these things, to invoke a response?
RIDGE: Yes sir.
STIDHAM: Invoke - confession.
RIDGE: Invoke a response, to keep him talking.
STIDHAM: Did it ever occur to you that, uh, Mr. Misskelley has a mental handicap?
RIDGE: No sir, it didn't to me on that date.
STIDHAM: Do you have any special training dealing with people with mental handicaps?
RIDGE: No sir.
STIDHAM: Did it ever occur to you that, that this was going to scare him, showing a picture of a body?
RIDGE: (sigh) That it would scare him? (sigh) I don't know, I guess he was scared into making a statement, yes sir.
STIDHAM: Did, uh, you think it was going to scare him when you uh drew this, or when Inspector Gitchell drew this circle and made this diagram? Did you think that was gonna scare him?
RIDGE: Not to scare him, no sir.
STIDHAM: Did you think this little tape recorded statement with the little boy's eerie voice, saying what it said, did you think that would scare him?
RIDGE: Yes sir, I thought that probably would scare him if he was involved.
STIDHAM: And you did that to invoke a response.
RIDGE: Inspector Gitchell did that, yes sir.
STIDHAM: Tell the jury, if you would please, about this circle.
RIDGE: This circle?
STIDHAM: Can you describe it, please?
RIDGE: It's just a circle drawn on a piece of paper, there are dots on that piece of paper, when it's shown to Mr. Misskelley, then it was asked where on this circle he was. Was he inside with the people that everybody was looking for, was he outside? We asked him where was he.
STIDHAM: And he replied, "I want out."
RIDGE: Yes sir.
STIDHAM: Officer Ridge, when you testified earlier that when he looked at the picture of the boy's body he was fixated?
RIDGE: Yes sir.
STIDHAM: Kinda frozen? He just sit there and looked at it?
RIDGE: Yes sir.
STIDHAM: Is that indicative of fear?
RIDGE: I would think so, yes sir.
STIDHAM: How long was Mr. Misskelley at the station house that day?
RIDGE: That day? From about whenever he was picked up, at 9:30 I guess, until he was arrested that day.
STIDHAM: What time was he placed under arrest?
RIDGE: Uh, far as I'm concerned, he was under arrest when he confessed to these crimes.
STIDHAM: When he said he was present and watched Damien and Jason do it?
RIDGE: Yes sir.
STIDHAM: That's the point that you considered him under arrest?
RIDGE: Yes sir.
STIDHAM: Let's talk a little bit about what he told you. Um, I guess you were real shocked, because you testified at the earlier hearing that, that you were shocked, when he told you that the little boys were killed at noon?
RIDGE: Yes sir.
STIDHAM: And why did that shock you?
RIDGE: I didn't feel that the murders took place at that time.
STIDHAM: And what evidence did you have before you to suggest that?
RIDGE: There was a window of opportunity when the murders could have occurred, which we had found was between 6:30 on the 5th of May until 1:30, or approximately 1:30 when the bodies were found the next morning on the 6th. Next, next afternoon.
STIDHAM: So you knew then, that the boys were in school that day?
RIDGE: Yes sir.
STIDHAM: That'd be a fair statement. And you also knew that there were eyewitnesses who placed them near their homes, uh, at 6 or 6:30.
RIDGE: Near their homes, yes sir.
STIDHAM: Okay. So you knew then, that the murders couldn't have happened at noon?
RIDGE: Yes sir.
STIDHAM: Why didn't you ask Jessie about that on the tape?
RIDGE: He was asked about that on the tape.
STIDHAM: When? I mean, later on --
RIDGE: Tape Inspector Gitchell.
STIDHAM: The second tape.
RIDGE: Yes sir.
STIDHAM: But you were the one doing the interrogating on the first tape.
RIDGE: Yes sir.
STIDHAM: But you didn't think it was important enough to go into that while you had the tape recorder on the first time?
RIDGE: Yes sir, it's all important. It was important that we keep him talking, when you start contradicting somebody, then they stop talking.
STIDHAM: I guess you were also shocked when you learned that, uh, Jessie had stated the boys were tied up with a brown rope?
RIDGE: Yes sir.
STIDHAM: And you knew that wasn't true.
RIDGE: I don't know that at some point they weren't tied up with a rope.
STIDHAM: That's not the way the bodies were found, is it Officer?
RIDGE: No sir.
STIDHAM: After Jessie told you that, that uh, he was present and watched Damien and Jason kill these three little boys, did you ever make an attempt on June the 3rd to verify where he was at or what he had told you earlier? About not, about roofing that day, or being home that afternoon.
RIDGE: On that day we took the statement and everything he had told us, and we acted on it.
STIDHAM: I guess you were pretty happy that, that he had given this statement.
RIDGE: That's a fair judgment, yes sir.
STIDHAM: There was a lot of pressure on the police department to make an arrest, wasn't there?
RIDGE: I'm not saying to make an arrest, to solve the crime.
STIDHAM: Pass the witness.

FOGLEMAN: This business about him, um, about checking out his story, uh, when you've got a person that's confessing a crime to you, do you just interrupt 'em in the middle of their confession, say well let me go out and, and check and, and see where you were that day, see if what you're telling us about where you were that day is that correct. Can you do that?
RIDGE: No sir, you can't do that.
FOGLEMAN: Alright. Now did you later -- or first of all, what did he tell you about where he was that day?
RIDGE: He said he had been roofing earlier that day and that he had gotten off work at --
FOGLEMAN: What time?
RIDGE: He said 5:00.
FOGLEMAN: Alright. And did you check with the person he was doing the roofing for?
RIDGE: Yes sir, I did.
FOGLEMAN: You talked to him.
RIDGE: Yes sir.
FOGLEMAN: And did you find out that Jessie wasn't telling you the truth about how long he had been working that day?
RIDGE: Yes sir, I did find out.
FOGLEMAN: In fact, what time did you find out he got off work?
RIDGE: 12:30 that afternoon.
FOGLEMAN: Now, this business about the defendant being scared, uh, was it your perception that he was scared of you or scared of the situation he was finding himself in?
RIDGE: The sit --

STIDHAM: Your Honor, I object, that calls for speculation.

FOGLEMAN: Your Honor, he's asking him about him being scared, I think we're ought to be allowed to, to inquire into that.

STIDHAM: Judge, I think it's obvious what he was scared of.

CROW: (inaudible) your Honor, they're calling for speculation.

FOGLEMAN: Well, your Honor, if that question calls for speculation, the question to Detective Ridge --

THE COURT: Well gentlemen, I think you can argue, each of you can argue your perception of the observation of the witness, that he was scared. I think that's a question of argument, and I'm going to let it go at that.

FOGLEMAN: Alright. In regard to the circle, when this circle was drawn, are there any particular, were there any particular number of dots inside or outside the circle?
RIDGE: There were dots all over the paper.
FOGLEMAN: Alright. Alright. Do you remember how many dots were inside the circle?
RIDGE: Not in particular, no sir, I don't.
FOGLEMAN: Okay. Can you say whether it was, uh, you don't have any idea?
RIDGE: No sir, I really don't know.
FOGLEMAN: Okay. Did you do that?
RIDGE: No sir, Inspector Gitchell did that.
FOGLEMAN: Okay. In regard to this, to Mr. Stidham's question in regard to uh, confirming any of this satanic activity and eating dogs and that kind of stuff, uh, were, were y'all ever directed to sites in the Lakeshore and Highland Park area, uh, where animal carcasses were found?
RIDGE: Yes sir.
FOGLEMAN: And what type of grafitti was found in that same area?
RIDGE: Uh, there were pentagrams, uh, upside-down crosses, uh, writings, AC/DC, uh --
FOGLEMAN: Heavy metal type stuff?
RIDGE: Yes sir. Uh, all kinds of symbols.
FOGLEMAN: I don't have any further questions at this time.

STIDHAM: Officer Ridge, you're talking about Stonehenge, right?
RIDGE: I'm talking about several different areas, around and close to Lakeshore.
STIDHAM: How do you know that this isn't a bunch of kids getting together and playing loud music and, and drinking beer?
RIDGE: I don't know that.
STIDHAM: Thank you.

FOGLEMAN: Would you expect to find these animal carcasses around with a bunch of kids that are just drinking beer and playing loud music?
RIDGE: I wouldn't think so, no sir.
FOGLEMAN: And on these people that, uh, that Jessie identified as possibly being involved, would you ex -- did you expect for any of them to admit that they had been involved in eating dogs?
RIDGE: No sir.
FOGLEMAN: Alright. I don't have any further questions.

STIDHAM: Did you find out anything from talking to people to indicate they were being deceptive with you, when you asked them about their cult activity?
RIDGE: That they were being deceptive? Just that they denied being a member.
STIDHAM: Did you have any reason to disbelieve them?
RIDGE: No sir.
STIDHAM: So you can't prove that any of those people that he said were in this cult were in this cult, can you?
RIDGE: No sir, I can't prove that.
STIDHAM: No further questions.

FOGLEMAN: I don't have any further questions.

THE COURT: Are you through with him?

(somebody mumbles)

THE COURT: Well, go back to the back room again. If there is a back room (chuckles), I don't know.

STIDHAM: May I suggest that we take a five or ten minutes recess?

THE COURT: That's alright. Alright ladies and gentlemen, again with the usual admonition, you may stand in recess for five to ten minutes.



FOGLEMAN: I'm going to wait for them to close the door, there's too much racket down the hall.

(brief pause)

FOGLEMAN: Detective Ridge, I neglected to ask you something. In regard to State's Exhibit 95, when did you recover those shoes from Buddy Lucas?
RIDGE: On 6/10 of 93.
FOGLEMAN: June the 10th?
RIDGE: Yes sir.
FOGLEMAN: I want to show you what I've marked for identification purposes as State's Exhibit 78, 79, and ask if you recognize those photographs?
RIDGE: Yes sir, I do.
FOGLEMAN: Alright. And when were those photographs taken?
RIDGE: In Lt. Hester's office at the police department on 6/3 of 93.
FOGLEMAN: And do those fairly and accurately portray the defendant as he appeared on the date of his arrest?
RIDGE: Yes sir, they do.

FOGLEMAN: Your Honor, we would offer State's Exhibit 78 and 79.

THE COURT: Alright.

CROW: We object, your Honor.

THE COURT: Pardon?

STIDHAM: We object, those don't fairly and accurately depict the way he appeared on, on May the 5th.

THE COURT: Well, the witness has indicated that's the way he appeared at the date of his arrest, and they'll be received for that purpose.

FOGLEMAN: That's all, your Honor.

THE COURT: Anything else?

STIDHAM: Nothing further, your Honor.

THE COURT: This time you can really go back there.

RIDGE: Thanks.

THE COURT: Call your next witness.