Fogleman: Would you state your name and occupation for the jury?
Allen: Mike Allen. I'm a detective sargeant with the West Memphis Police Department.
Fogleman: Detective Allen, I want to dirrect your attention to uh - May the 6th, 1993. Uh - did you participate in the search for Michael Moore, Stevie Branch, and Chris Byers on that date?
Allen: Yes sir.
Fogleman: Alright. Explain for us the circumstances about how you got involved in this search.
Allen: Uh - that morning upon coming to work to West Memphis Police Department, uh - our offices are upstairs, we normally have a morning meeting at uh - 8:00, uh - that morning uh - we get there a few minutes early - but that morning, uh - we went in to sit in the morning meeting and Inspector Gitchell advised us that three eight year old boys were missing and that we needed to get out and start looking for 'em.
Fogleman: And how many of you are there in the detective division, that participated in this search?
Allen: That morning, there were probably seven or eight of us - that morning, that showed up to the meeting that went out. Some other officers assisted also.
Fogleman: Alright. And upon leaving the station, do you know about what time you uh - started your search?
Allen: Uh - it - approximately 8:00. I'm saying we got there at - around that time frame, I don't know exactly, it was real near the 8:00 hour.
Fogleman: And after you checked in service, what did you do?
Allen: Uh - Inspector Gitchell advised uh - me to go around and check vacant houses in the area.
Fogleman: Alright. And uh - was that in the neighborhood where the boys were?
Allen: Yes sir.
Fogleman: Alright. If you would step down and refer your attention to state's exhibit 101. If you could step over to the side and show the jury the area that are shown in the photograph where you searched.
Allen: Uh - this area right here is 7th street, uh - mainly the vacant residents, which would be our northeast section of West Memphis, which is uh - this area to the city limits uh - which would be going east uh - the residential area is out towards Club road - out towards truck stops and then Broadway street, which would be south from here, which runs east and west, which is not shown in this ariel photo but uh -
Fogleman: Well, let me stop you. Let me put up the uh - state's exhibit 2 and ask if you can take this red marker and draw off the area where this search - your search was concentrated.
Allen: This right here is 7th street uh - here, I call this the northeast section of West Memphis - we're kind of in wards. Uh - this would be the northeast ward. This here's Broadway street. Uh - I concentrated my search in vacant houses in this area, east of 7th street. Uh - the area in which the boys lived in and uh - north of Broadway. This area here.
Fogleman: You can retake the stand. During your search, were you aware of other people searching?
Allen: Yes sir.
Fogleman: Alright. And besides the uh - detective division of the West Memphis Police Department, uh - what other groups were you aware of searching?
Allen: The uh - Crittenden County Search and Rescue, uh - other uniform officers of the West Memphis Police Department, uh - we also had some members of the uh - West Memphis Utility Department uh - out searching also.
Fogleman: Ok. At some point during your search, did you have an occassion to go to the area where the - what's called Robinhood, the wooded area near Blue Beacon?
Allen: Yes sir, I did.
Fogleman: Alright. And about what time was that?
Allen: It was approximately 1:30.
Fogleman: And when you arrived at that area uh - did you - what, if anything unusual did you see?
Allen: Uh - I was directed by an officer of the Crittenden County Search and Rescue that they had found a uh - tennis shoe floating in a ditch, which was you know - in a patch of woods uh - north of the Ten Mile Bayou. Uh - and I went to that location.
Fogleman: And when you went to that location, what did you yourself see?
Allen: I observed a tennis shoe uh - floating in - on top of the water.
Fogleman: Let me show you what has been marked for identification purposes as state's exhibit 9. Ask if you can identify that.
Allen: Yes sir.
Fogleman: Does that photograph fairly and accurately portray the scene as it appeared to you at that time?
Allen: Yes sir.
Fogleman: Your Honor, we would offer state's exhibit 9.
Price: No objection.
The Court: Alright, it may be recieved without objection.
Fogleman: I also want to show you state's exhibit - for identification purposes - 10, 11, 12, and 31. If you would look at those Officer, see if you recognize those.
Allen: Uh - yes sir.
Fogleman: And do those photographs fairly and accurately portray the scene as it appeared to you at that time?
Allen: Yes sir.
Fogleman: Your Honor, we would offer state's exhibits 10, 11, 12, and 31.
Ford: No objection.
Price: No objection.
The Court: Alright, they may be recieved.
Fogleman: Your Honor, may the officer step down and exhibit to the jury?
The Court: Yes.
Fogleman: I'll tell you what, I'm gonna let you just hold it and we can do it that way. Refer to 'em by exhibit number and if you would step all the way in front of the jury, try to make sure all the jury sees that.
(mumble)
Fogleman: Go ahead.
Allen: Uh - this first photograph uh -
Fogleman: Exhibit number.
Allen: - here, exhibit number 9 is marked on the back. This is an ariel shot of the area they call Robinhood Hills, uh - this is Ten Mile Bayou here, this section north and south of the interstate. The Blue Beacon truck wash is here.
Fogleman: Ok. What is this area right here?
Allen: This is a trail leading uh - from West McAuley going to a pipe that crosses the Ten Mile Bayou here, the trail that leads up
(mumbling)
The Court: You can take that down.
Fogleman: If you would Officer Allen, if you would point with the pointer on state's exhibit 101 the area that the ariel photograph just introduced - what area that shows, in particular the woods at Blue Beacon and Blue Beacon.
Allen: This is the pipe that I was talking about that crosses the Ten Mile Bayou here. Uh - when I came in, I parked my car there and walked in this way - over where the pipe uh - which is heading north here in this photograph, uh - walked up this trail here and was directed into the woods by another officer uh -
Fogleman: And where is the Blue Beacon?
Allen: The Blue Beacon is right here. This is the Blue Beacon truck wash here.
Fogleman: Alright. And what is - what is this right here?
Allen: This is interstate - actually interstate 40 and interstate 55, they split off uh - to the east and west of this location, but this is the interstate.
Fogleman: And what is this business right here?
Allen: This business right here is um - Luv's country store/truck stop.
Fogleman: Alright. And this larger area?
Allen: This is the 76 truck stop and parking lot here and this is 7th street here.
Fogleman: And in this area of Blue Beacon, Luv's, and 76 truck stop what are the lighting conditions there?
Allen: Uh - there are lights uh - big towers - well, towers here uh - lighting uh - nearly every one of these buildings with flood lights. There's numerous lights. Flood lights in this area here and the parking was - the parking lot at night is pretty well lit up.
Fogleman: Alright. And how about Blue Beacon?
Allen: Uh - Blue Beacon, there's a little median right here uh - there's flood lights there and flood lights in this area here and there's also flood lights on the building that shine outward. A pretty well lit up area here, at night, real lit up. Even on the back here, it's a lit up area.
Fogleman: Alright. Now if you would, take the next photograph - i believe it's state's exhibit 10. And if you would, step out to the jury and make sure all the jury can see.
Allen: Ok. This is in the wooded area of Robinhood Hill. Uh - there's a ditch within this woods that runs uh - down this way that - it runs into the Ten Mile Bayou. This is - this photograph here reflects uh - me crossing this ditch to get on the other side, there's the tennis shoe that I observed was uh - there's like a cliff right here and it was where I had to go down to cross to get on the other side to get closer to where I could uh - observe the tennis shoe.
Fogleman: Is that prior to discovering any of the victims?
Allen: Yes, that's when I first got into this area.
Fogleman: Alright. And were you able to make it across without getting into the water?
Allen: No sir, I uh - fell into the water here uh - in exhibit 11, and came up the bank here and around over to the area where the tennis shoe was, up the ditch here.
Fogleman: Go ahead Officer.
Allen: Exhibit 12 uh - represents the location where I found the first body.
Fogleman: How did you come to find him after you went over the tree there and got back in the water, how did you come to find him?
Allen: Yes. Uh - down in this direction, where they - other photograph that you just looked at uh - was that - over in this area, I walked around the tree and right down this bank here and stepped off into the water here and was reaching uh - for the tennis shoe and with my feet I could feel an object and I raised up and uh - I discovered this body.
Fogleman: And who else is in the photograph?
Allen: This photograph was uh - taken when Detective Ridge uh - got to the scene.
Fogleman: Alright. In uh - state's exhibit 31, what are you pointing at in that photograph?
Allen: This is the location - this is - uh - this photograph was probably taken before that photograph, but this is the photograph where I located the first body here.
Fogleman: Are you pointing to the area where in the water the body -
Allen: Yes. At this point, I had already discovered the body and got back up on this bank here. The body, at the time this photograph right here was taken, was still uh - sunken in the water there.
Fogleman: You can retake the stand. Alright, in the photo - I believe it's state's exhibit 31 where you discovered uh - the first body, are you familiar with which victim that was?
Allen: Yes sir.
Fogleman: And who is that?
Allen: It was uh - Michael Moore.
Fogleman: Alright. And uh - are you familiar with whether the uh - with whether Stevie and Chris were discovered upstream or downstream from uh -
Allen: It was downstream.
Fogleman: And what difference if any did you note in the surface of the water in the area where Michael Moore was discovered as oppose to downstream in the area where Stevie and Chris were found?
Allen: The area that Michael Moore was located was a uh - was - the water was uh - the surface of the water was cleaner in a sense that uh - it was murky as far as muddy water, but the debris on top floating on top of the water there was a lot more debris in the location in where uh - the other two boys were found.
Fogleman: And in the uh - area uh - in the general area where you were standing in exhibit 31 and pointing into the water, uh - did you note - or what if anything did you note about the conditioning of the bank?
Allen: The condition of the -
Fogleman: Bank.
Allen: - bank, it was - from looking at the whole picture, you - uh - it was more - the bank was slicked, but it was like - like some scuffs in the bank. Uh - the surface uh - no leaves, absence of leaves, uh - in an area just over and alot of the other area, there were leaves and things of that nature. This area uh - looked alot cleaner than the other area.
Fogleman: I don't have any further questions at this time.
Price: Officer Allen, at the crimescene did y'all find a boot print on the bank?
Allen: A boot print?
Price: A boot print that was 18 inches out of the water, 3 foot to the north of the first body.
Allen: A boot print?
Price: A boot print, yes sir.
Allen: Uh - no sir.
Price: Ok. Did y'all take a cast of some type of footprint or shoe print out at the scene?
Allen: Yes sir.
Price: Ok. Do you recall if that was a cast of a - was that a boot print or a shoe print or a tennis shoe print or a - do you recall what kind of cast that was?
Allen: I - it appeared to me as maybe a tennis shoe type print.
Price: And this was something that uh - one of the officers there at the crimescene, did y'all use some kind of plaster paris to actually make a cast out of that particular print?
Allen: I did not do that, but we did have a crimescene officer that did do that.
Price: Ok. Do you recall who the one - who the officer that did that was?
Allen: Uh - Bryn Ridge and uh - Tony Anderson assisted with that.
Price: Ok. Do you recall if they took this cast of this tennis shoe print uh - on May the 6th, the day that y'all found the bodies?
Allen: It was the day that we found the bodies.
Price: Alright. Besides that tennis shoe print that y'all took a cast of, were there other footprints that y'all found out at the scene?
Allen: At that - at that particular given scene?
Price: Yes sir, at that - where the bodies were found out at the Robinhood area.
Allen: Uh - not what you would call any impressions, nothing visible as far as impressions. Uh - in the slicked off area, uh - alot of scuffing. Uh - nothing, no visible impressions that were still there when we got there.
Price: Ok. Do you recall if y'all ever found a barefoot print out at the scene?
Allen: I don't recall that.
Price: Ok. Are you aware that barefoot samples were taken of my client, Damien Echols' foot during this investigation?
Allen: I don't have - I have hearsay knowledge of that.
Price: Ok.
Allen: I don't -
Price: To your knowledge, did the footprint that was taken - the barefoot print that was taken of my client ever match up anything out at the crimescene?
Allen: From the information I gathered, there would - and I'm not an expert in latent prints, but there was not enough ridge characteristics to have matched - to have matched uh - where a person could positively say whether or not that was any particular person's.
Price: Ok.
Allen: - print.
Price: Was there some - to your knowledge, was there some type of print that was found in the mud that y'all - one of the officers made a, some kind of box around at the scene?
Allen: I think you're - that must have been - that was what I was referring to, I don't know that - you're talking about the same impression that was in the mud that was taken as uh - I don't think there were 2 different prints.
Price: There weren't 2 different impressions?
Allen: No. We're -
Price: This is the same impression.
Allen: - talking about the same impression.
Price: Ok.
Allen: And it was unknown whether or not it was a - made by a footprint or fingerprint, whatever.
Price: Ok.
Allen: I don't -
Price: Alright, at - on uh - do you recall approximately how long you stayed out at the crimescene on May the 6th?
Allen: Yes sir.
Price: About what time did you leave?
Allen: It was roughly after 8:00 that evening.
Price: Ok.
Allen: It was between 8 and 8:30.
Price: Ok. At approximately 9:00 pm, did you and Detective Ridge go to the Bojangles restaurant?
Allen: Yes sir, I believe.
Price: Ok. And di you talk to a - the manager at the Bojangles restaurant, a Marty King?
Allen: Yes sir.
Price: Ok, was this -
Allen: If that was his name.
Price: Ok. Was this in reference to a report that Regenia Meek had taken the night before about a black man going to Bojangles with blood on him?
Allen: Uh - I would - yes sir.
Price: And during the conversation that you had with Marty King, did Marty King give you and Officer Ridge a pair of sunglasses that was left by the bleeding black man?
Allen: I don't recall any sunglasses, I remember him telling about some sunglasses that the man had left, but to my knowledge uh - we did not recieve any sunglasses from him.
Price: Ok. Do you recall either you or Officer Ridge taking blood samples from the ladies bathroom at the Bojangles restaurant?
Allen: I believe Officer Ridge did that.
Price: Ok.
(next audio begins)
Price: - ask Mr. King if you could take the pair of sunglasses that was left by the bleeding black man?
Allen: I think he said that they were uh - just from - uh - he said he had cleaned the blood up and that uh - I think they were trashed.
Price: Did Mr. King indicate that he trashed the sunglasses? Is that your testimony?
Allen: I don't know who he said cleaned the blood up or cleaned the - cleaned it up.
Price: One moment, Your Honor.
(tape flipped)
Price: - at the Bojangles restaurant talking with the manager uh - do you recall if the manager - if you asked the manager what type of mud that the uh - bleeding black man had on him the night before?
Allen: Uh - what kind of mud he had on?
Price: Yes sir.
Allen: Um - my notes - I - I - I think he said the guy was dirty, I don't know uh -
Price: Do you recall asking the manager of Bojangles if the person had mud on him similar to the mud that you had on your pants, your shoes?
Allen: No sir, I don't remember that question.
Price: Ok. Out at the crimescene, did y'all ever find any goats' heads?
Allen: No sir.
Price: Did you find any animal carcasses?
Allen: Not to my knowledge.
Price: Did you find any evidence of any fires where the bodies were found?
Allen: There had been some fires out there in the past from - from some signs that we could see.
Price: Ok. Now is this in your notes that you took at the crimescene? Or did you do a report about what you did there at the crimescene?
Allen: No sir.
Price: Ok. Do you recall finding any beer bottles there where the - were beer cans there where the bodies were found?
Allen: No, there - the only - in that wooded area, nothing as far as any fresh beer cans or anything of that - everything that was out there looked like it had been in the sun for a long, long time.
Price: Ok.
Allen: Mostly -
Price: Do you recall -
(talking over)
Price: Oh, I'm sorry. Do you recall, was there a bag - some kind of duffle bag, overnight bag that may have had some items in it that was found sort of near the crimescene?
Allen: I'm not familiar with that.
Price: Ok. Do you recall seeing any kind of a circle in the area - that flattened area that you said near where the bodies were found?
Allen: That area had been um - just scuffed up, it -
Price: But did you see any evidence of a circle in that area?
Allen: No, nothing stuck out at me.
Price: Was there any visible blood found at the crimescene?
Allen: Any visible blood, um - not on the ground.
Price: Not on the ground.
Allen: Had lots of it in the water, but none on the ground.
Price: To your knowledge, was there any semen found at the crimescene, on the ground?
Fogleman: Your Honor, I object to that question where an expert can answer that question, I don't believe Mr. Allen can detect further any semen.
Price: Judge, I don't recall any experts being at the crimescene. Any evidence that would have been there, the officers would have had to collect that and sent that to the experts to be tested. That's -
The Court: Did you collect any items to be sent to the lab?
Allen: Detective Ridge uh - took the children's clothes, bagged them up and sent them to the lab and I'm - and -
Price: Ok. To your knowledge, were there any knives found at the crimescene where the bodies were located?
Allen: No sir.
Price: Ok. To your knowledge, were there any fingerprints found at the crimescene where the bodies were located?
Allen: In a wooded area, uh - other than the impression, some - whatever the impression was that - I'm not a - like I said, I'm not a fingerprint expert but there was an impression that was left but to my knowledge it was uh - uncomparable.
Price: Alright. One moment, Your Honor. No further questions.
The Court: Alright ladies and gentlemen, you can stand at recess for fifteen minutes with the usual admonition not to discuss the case.
(mumbling)
(audio turned off, starts abruptly)
Allen: No, not really.
Ford: Ok. I believe you told uh - this jury that Inspector Gitchell just came in and said, "We've got three eight year olds missing" and "Go get - go look for 'em."
Allen: He had the offense reports uh - there that he had made copies of and uh -
Ford: Did y'all spend any time developing any strategy as to how you were gonna go about this search?
Allen: Uh - I assume, Inspector Gitchell, he advised me to - to check these vacant houses, so -
Ford: Ok, so you had - alright, not to cut you off, but you - when you left, you had specificly assigned duties?
Allen: When I left, I had a specific assigned duty.
Ford: Ok. And tell me again what that was.
Allen: That was to check vacant houses in the area. Myself and, I think, Diane Hester took some of them too. We went to the utility department uh - later on that morning, we checked - started checking vacant houses and we were - there were some houses where you couldn't tell whether or not they were vacant or not, they kind of looked like they were vacant. So we went and uh - we went and got Brian Weatherspoon, who works for the city to run up a computer check on vacant houses and we went by and picked one of those up.
Ford: Alright. About what time was that?
Allen: I have no earthly idea, I know I was in that area searching and riding - it probably was, I don't know - 10 - hell, I'd just be guessing.
Ford: Ok. You can't see this can you?
Allen: No sir.
Ford: Let me turn it a bit, now can you see it?
Allen: Yes sir.
Ford: Can you all see that too? This is 7th street here, correct?
Allen: Yes sir.
Ford: Ok. And is this the area that you were checking vacant houses on?
Allen: No sir.
Ford: Ok, I thought that's - tell me where you were in - was it in the residence -
Allen: It was - I was in the residential area which is considered the northwest, I mean, the northeast part of West Memphis, which is basically uh - the area, the residential area east of 7th street, south of the interstate, north of Broadway which crosses east and west through West Memphis and from about Club road back west. This - it's a section there of residence and all three of the boys lived within that area.
Ford: Ok. What is this street right here?
Allen: Um - if I could get down here.
Ford: Yes, fine, go ahead.
Allen: (mumbling) This right here is a mini storage, this would be corner grocery, this would be East Barton here.
Ford: That's East Barton.
Allen: And on down East Barton this way uh - at 14th and Barton is where they - the Byers lived on the northeast corner and the Moores lived on the northwest corner of this street right here on down. This is the residential neighborhood that we were searching. From here, backwards.
Ford: Ok. So these young boys uh - Michael, Chris, and Stevie, they don't live in any of these homes that are on this -
Allen: No sir, they were supposedly last seen in that area of Robinhood, was all we had.
Ford: Ok. Now this - this area here, where all these little trails are, is this known - that's considered Robinhood?
Allen: I don't know -
Ford: Right here.
Allen: Uh -
Ford: Or is it only this section here?
Allen: I think - I don't know exactly what - I know that they call that Robinhood Hills because that's got some sloping hills and the other area has got some - I don't know. It's something - it's not anything, I don't think, that the city named. It was - I don't know, if the residents maybe have named that uh - and it's just a name that carried on. I - I didn't grow up in that area and I don't really know what they uh - call that particular area over there with the trails.
Ford: Ok.
Allen: Maybe they call it all Robinhood.
Ford: This is McAuley -
Allen: That's West McAuley there in front of - that runs in front of Mayfair Apartments, which runs uh - it runs north and south.
Ford: Ok.
Allen: And it dead ends into -
Ford: This is -
Allen: Mayfair Apartments.
Ford: Mayfair Apartments. And this is north and south.
Allen: That's north and south.
(talking over each other)
Ford: This is north.
Allen: That's north up there.
Ford: This is south.
Allen: Yes.
Ford: So, to get our bearings straight, we really are more like this if we're looking north, south, east, and west. That's right? Is that right?
Allen: I don't see an ariel indicator on north, but it's basically - yes.
Ford: Ok. This is the northern part and this is the southern part.
Allen: Yes.
Ford: Ok.
Allen: I don't know how square that is, but -
Ford: Ok.
Allen: - yes sir.
Ford: Ok. But that is it as far as -
Allen: Yes sir.
Ford: Now, around 10:00, you and Detective Hester were checking empty houses. Or atleast that's what time you picked up this computer printout, is that right?
Allen: I - like I said, I'm not sure what time it was. Sometime between 8:00 that morning and when I found the boys. I was in that area checking vacant houses and -
Ford: At what point did you, if you can Sargeant, tell me when you went from checking the vacant houses to going in these woods? What caused you to change your described duties?
Allen: There was a call that came out over the radio that was directed to 249, which is George Phillips a officer with the West Memphis Police Department - a uniformed officer, um - I don't really remember anything other than they wanted George Phillips uh - dispatch called and asked that George Phillips meet a county officer at the dead end of West McAuley, which is the area uh - which is - which is this area -
Ford: Mark where McAuley street is. Alright. Would you put your initials there, M.A., Mike Allen. And is that where you - you heard the radio call to go to that location?
Allen: No, I was in this area and I heard the radio call to go to this location and uh - I got out - parked my car at the dead end here and walked in and was met by one of the deputies and George Phillips was -
Ford: Who - who was there with you when - who did you meet there who were law enforcement officers at that location?
Allen: Uh - Denver Reed, which is a uh - Deputy Sheriff also on the Crittenden County Search and Rescue, was coming out of the woods. Uh - I met him as I was going into the woods. Uh - Steve Jones who is a juvenile officer was at the location that uh - had observed the shoe and I guess him and Denver were in that area at that time searching.
Ford: Ok.
Allen: Uh -
Ford: So there's George Phillips -
Allen: George Phillips -
Ford: - Steve Jones, and Denver Reed and yourself - those four individuals?
Allen: I think Denver had - was leaving out as we were - we were coming in. Uh - as I recall, when I found the first body, uh -
Ford: Who was there with you?
Allen: Uh - Diane Hester had came in about that time, George Phillips was still there, and Steve Jones was there. Now, when I found the first body, Steve Jones left in a rather hurry fashion - sick.
Ford: Ok.
Allen: Uh - George Phillips, which is a uniformed officer, uh - got back, I know that. He was - they were up on the hillside and he got back, I mean uh -
Ford: And what about Detective Hester?
Allen: Now, Detective Hester uh - got on the radio and contacted Inspector Gitchell at that time.
Ford: Did she have a portable radio with her?
Allen: Yes.
Ford: Ok. So when you walked into the woods and you were walking across this bank, you're out there with Detective Hester, Patrolman Phillips, and Steve Jones, and yourself. Anyone else?
Allen: Uh - Diane came in - probably walked in behind me.
Ford: Ok. But was she there when you were trying to cross the ditch?
Allen: Yes, she's the one that took that photograph I believe. I don't - I would assume she did. She was there.
Ford: Now, let's start with state's exhibit number 10. Who took that photograph?
Allen: Well, it wasn't me. It was uh - I believe it was uh - Sargeant Hester or George - oops, I don't know. I -
Ford: You don't know who took that picture?
Allen: Well, I'm not in a position to really tell, but I think it was Diane Hester.
Ford: Ok. Well, who - who had the camera out there between the four of you?
Allen: (sigh) Must have been Diane Hester. Diane Hester, I would think. I wouldn't think George -
Ford: Diane Hester. And did Diane take that picture, which is state's exhibit number 11?
Allen: I would assume she did.
Ford: Ok. And state's exhibit number 31, who took that photograph?
Allen: That, I don't know uh - I don't - around this time period, when she got on the radio - I don't know, this would have been after I had already discovered the body and I was pointing downward uh - and at this time, I had rubber gloves on, so this picture would have been taken - I would imagine Inspector Gitchell would have arrived at that time uh - the camera bag was - another camera bag from the police department was brought in that time, that's what's beside me right there, so I don't know who took this photograph. This was taken from up on a - up on a bank and they were - a couple of officers up there, I don't know who was taking the photograph.
The Court: You need 'em?
Ford: Yes sir, I'm not done with 'em. And do you know who took that photograph, state's exhibit number 12?
Allen: No sir.
Ford: You do not, ok.
Allen: I know it wasn't me or Bryn Ridge, but as far as that, I do not know. It was the furthest thing from my mind at that time.
Ford: Look at state's exhibit number 11, what color is the face on your watch?
Allen: It's the same watch I have on right here.
Ford: Black? A black face?
Allen: Yes, it's the same watch I've got on right here.
Ford: And what color is the watch face you have now?
Allen: It's black, it's the same color.
Ford: Show you state's exhibit number 10, what color is the face on that watch?
Allen: This is -
Ford: It's white, isn't it?
Allen: I have not changed watches. (giggle)
Ford: It's white, isn't it?
Allen: It's like a reflection, I'm sure.
Ford: You're saying - is it - does it appear white in that photograph?
Allen: Does it appear white in this photograph?
Ford: Yes sir.
Allen: It appears as a reflection, yes. But I -
Ford: When you and Officer Hester were walking into the woods, were y'all just clicking photographs one right after the other, one right after the other trying to catch each and everything that y'all did? So she just happened to catch you leaning across the ditch, just happened to catch you falling in the ditch - just by luck, when nobody even knew that you were going to find anything - nothing significant had occurred, but y'all just happened to be taking photographs - is that correct?
Allen: Diane Hester uh - at that point was before we realized that we had a tragedy of this - of this nature and at that time, I think she took those photographs 'cause she was poking fun at me because I was fixin' to fall uh - in the water.
Ford: Ok.
Allen: Uh -
Ford: So these two pictures were taken as a joke, state's exhibit number 10 and state's exhibit number 11.
Allen: That was what I call - at that point, those photographs were taken -
Ford: Because she thought you were fixin' to fall in the water, right? She thought you were fixin' to fall in the water so she said "Well I'll just take a picture, this may be funny"
Allen: Yeah, I did fall -
Ford: Is that what she was doing?
Allen: - in the water.
Ford: That's right. And she knew that was going to happen and she thought it was funny, is that right?
Allen: I assume.
Ford: Did you go back Sargeant, after this was - later, and take these photographs - stage these photographs? With different watches on.
Allen: (giggle) No sir. That's absurd.
Ford: Alright. That's absurd.
Allen: That's absurd.
Ford: And now, look at these other two photographs, state's exhibit number 31 and state's exhibit number 12 and look at your left hand - it appears in each one of those photographs, and tell me - do you have your watch on?
Allen: Well, I really can't tell. I've got a set of rubber gloves on at this point here.
Ford: Does it appear in that photograph, do you have your watch on?
Fogleman: Your Honor, I believe the witness answered the question, he really couldn't tell because of the rubber gloves.
Ford: Can you not tell whether there's a watch on or not in that picture?
Allen: If I would have put those rubber gloves on -
Ford: No, no.
Allen: - I would have taken my watch off.
Ford: Answer - answer my question. Can you -
Allen: I can not tell -
Ford: - tell whether or not you have a watch on in that picture?
Allen: No sir, I can not tell.
Ford: You can't tell. You can't tell.
Allen: Let me look real close, I want -
Ford: Look again, see if you can tell 'cause I mean - I want you to be careful - and tell me whether or not you can tell or whether you're undecided after looking at that photograph whether you've got your watch on or not. See how good your observations are.
(pause)
Allen: With these rubber gloves, I - I just would assume that I would have taken my watch off at that point.
Ford: Ok. Did Officer Hester take this photograph? State's exhibit number 31.
Allen: That, I do not know.
Ford: You don't know.
Allen: No.
Ford: State's exhibit number 11 and state's exhibit number 31, are they at the same location?
Allen: No sir.
Ford: They're not?
Allen: They're in the same - this is -
Ford: Not the same -
Allen: - if you could take these photographs to right here and put those photographs - say like this - they may be in the same location, but I mean, this - this is where the body was found and this is where I crossed just a little bit down stream, right here - down the creek.
Ford: Alright.
Allen: Come up around this here.
Ford: Now, when you were trying to cross the ditch in state's exhibit number 10, you were trying to cross the ditch to get to a tennis shoe - right?
Allen: Yes sir.
Ford: Can you find that tennis shoe in that picture that you were trying to get to? If you can, show it to me please.
Allen: No sir.
Ford: Ok. So the tennis shoe that you were trying to get to, you don't see in that picture - is that right?
Allen: That's correct.
Ford: Tennis shoe's not in that picture.
Allen: Tennis shoe is not in that picture, no sir.
Ford: That's all I have, thank you Mike.
Price: I've got some questions, Judge.
Fogleman: I've got redirect -
(talking over each other)
Fogleman: Detective Allen, I believe you previously testified in this, but - in regards to state's exhibit 11, where in relation to the crossing was the tennis shoe?
Allen: It was - this uh - this would have been what I call the west bank, where I crossed here was the only place really to cross within - because you've got to imagine, there's a high bank on this side - I crossed here because uh - without walking all the way back up and around the interstate and around the ditch and around the other side, I uh - I thought I could easily cross in that area, it was the easiest area for me to cross. And uh -
Fogleman: But where in relation to where you are in that dict -
Allen: This is - the water is flowing in this direction this way - it is slight, but this is what I would call down stream from where the tennis shoe is up - up in this area.
Fogleman: So the tennis shoe would have been like back toward me or the other direction?
Allen: Back up - back up this way 'cause I came up around this tree and around.
Fogleman: Ok. So back toward me?
Allen: Yes, yes, yes.
Fogleman: Ok.
Allen: Back up towards you.
Fogleman: I don't have any further questions.
Price: Officer Allen, out at the crimescene was one of uh - Sargeant Hester's duties to write up the notes about what y'all were finding there at the scene?
Allen: Um - Inspector Gitchell and um - Lt. Hester and those other officers, one of them were - I'm sure was taking notes. I don't know. I don't know who took the notes. Uh - Officer Ridge could might be able to tell you that, or one of the other officers.
Price: Alright. If Sargeant Hester's notes of the crimescene indicate that Sargeant Allen recovered a partial shoe print, west side bank where the second body was located - do you recall?
Allen: That was the one that they casted later that day.
Price: That's the same print that we talked about earlier?
Allen: Yes sir.
Price: Ok. And uh - soon after y'all reco - located the first body, did y'all put some kind of uh - crimescene evidence tape or some type of something around the whole area there at the Robinhood to keep out anybody else from coming in there?
Allen: Where you're at - I - I - they - when I came out that evening, they had crimescene tape. When I brought evidence out uh - that evening uh - they - when we came out that evening, they had crimescene tape around. I wasn't there, out doing that.
Price: Ok.
Allen: There was someone else.
Price: Ok. Uh - do you recall if you or some of the other members of the criminal investigation division came back to the crimescene the next day, which would be May the 7th?
Allen: We did come - we came back and we did a uh - what they call a grid search.
Price: Ok. And for the next 3 or 4 days would y'all have come back to the crimescene uh - looking for different types of evidence?
Allen: Um - other officers would have uh -
Price: Ok. Do you recall um - nothing further. Judge, I would like to approach the bench to -
(Bench Conference)
Price: Judge, I would like to ask the officer if on May the 12th and May the 13th he was back out at the crimescene. I do not want to ask him the cause of - exactly what he was doing, but -
The Court: Then don't -
Price: Just a minute, the relevance is the fact that the officer was at the crimescene looking for evidence. I'll limit it to that, obviously The Court has already made uh - ruled on motion of limity. I'm not going to ask the specific -
The Court: What difference would it make if he was out there when you can't ask him what he was doing there -
Price: Well, I want to establish the fact that he was there also on the 12th and the 13th.
Fogleman: Well, this is a problem for us Judge. Once they get done putting him out there, we're going to have to explain why he was out there twidling his thumbs.
Price: Well, I'm not going to imply that he was twidling his thumbs, Judge. I'm not going to ask him -
The Court: What are you going to imply then?
Price: Well, we ask if he was out there at the crimescene on the 12th and the 13th and that's the only -
The Court: Well, what's the relevance?
Price: The relevance is to establish that the officers were out there during the approximate - within the - pretty much every day within the whole week from when the bodies were found. I've already asked him and he said that for the 7th and 8th and a couple of days after, the officers were there. That's approximately a week after the bodies were found. That's the only question that I want to ask.
The Court: I don't see where it's relevant, but I'll let you go ahead and ask it.
Price: Alright.
Fogleman: And we're not going to be allowed to establish why they were out there?
Price: I'll let him tell - were he and the other officers looking for evidence.
The Court: Because they were to look for evidence.
Price: And that's all I'll ask him.
Fogleman: But not the results of what they found or didn't find.
The Court: Well, you can't introduce the luminol if that's what you mean.
Fogleman: Well that's what I'm saying. I'm saying that and if we can't go into what they did -
The Court: I don't see whether it makes one bit of difference one way or the other. They've been asking what kind of watch you had on and who took the pictures - what difference does any of it make? Pictures were taken. Go ahead and ask him.
Price: Ok.
(Open Court)
Price: Officer Allen, were you and other officers out at the crimescene on May the 12th and May the 13th looking for evidence?
Allen: I - I would have to look at the notes of - of something in regards to that. I don't know what particular days. Uh - I was back out at the crimescene after - we have gone out there numerous times.
Price: Can I approach the witness to show him the dates to refresh his recollection - just on the dates?
Davis: We object.
Fogleman: You're showing him another person's document and I -
Price: I'll be glad to ask it of any other officer, if he has any recollections of being out there on the 12th and 13th.
The Court: You better be careful what you ask him.
Price: Your Honor -
The Court: It's suddenly gonna become relevant and admissible.
Price: Judge, I asked him a very specific question - if he was out at the crimescene on May the 12 and May the 13th.
The Court: Alright.
Davis: Your Honor, may I approach?
The Court: Yes.
Davis: (whispering)
Price: That's my only question.
Davis: (whispering)
The Court: I can't possibly understand why it's relevant. I mean, you can ask him if he was out there numerous times investigating.
Price: I'll tie it up later.
Davis: Judge, if he asks what I think he's gonna ask, we object.
The Court: I don't know what he's going to ask.
Price: That's my only question.
Davis: (whispering)
Price: No, I'm not going to do that, Your Honor. I'm asking him a specific question about a date and a date only.
The Court: Ok. You're going to keep on to where you're going to open the door to let them -
Price: I've asked him a specific question, he's refreshing his recollection.
The Court: Alright.
Davis: Well Judge -
The Court: Mike, don't answer what you were doing there.
Price: Officer Allen, do you recall being there at the crimescene on May the 12th and May the 13th?
Allen: I was out there on May the 12th.
Price: Alright. No further questions.
Fogleman: Were you out there all day?
Allen: I believe that was -
Fogleman: Or was that at night?
Allen: I believe that was in the evening.
Fogleman: After dark?
Allen: I don't remember if it - yes it was, it was definately dark at that time.
Price: Nothing further, Your Honor.
Allen: On May the 12th. I was not out there on the 13th.
The Court: Anything else?
Ford: Yes sir. Sargeant, this steep bank that you (someone coughing over) to Mr. Fogleman in the redirect questions, was that this same steep bank that's cleared off?
Allen: No sir, that steep bank - it's not a bank in itself, it's like a cliff - washout cliff uh - it's almost as straight down as this right here other than it's about - I would say about 15 foot or so high and straight down. It's the side of a straight down hill. A cliff like area.
Ford: So that's not the bank that you were referring to that was all cleaned off?
Allen: No. The cliff area bank that I'm talking about is on the west side. The flat plateau area is on the east side of the ditch.
Ford: Ok.
Allen: I crossed over to that area.
Ford: You crossed over to the plateau area?
Allen: To the plateau area from the - from the uh - I guess the southside of this - the little area where I could cross downward.
Ford: So, the plateau would be back in this direction?
Allen: No sir. The plateau would be - if you're taking this photograph - this is a photograph shot at a southward direction.
Ford: Ok.
Allen: Uh - this is down stream with the flow of water uh - going downward and around this tree here uh - there is a flat plateau area - say like if this picture was laid out, it would be over like in this area.
Ford: Ok. Do you have a photograph of that?
Allen: I -
Ford: Do you know of one? Have you ever seen a photograph of that plateau?
Allen: If you'll show me all those other photographs, I'll show you the area. This is the - this area right here is this - is this bank uh - flat uh -
Ford: Now tell me the number on the back so we can keep it straight.
Allen: Number 31.
Ford: Ok. And that's the - this is the bank that was cleaned off?
Allen: That is on the east side of that ditch.
Ford: Ok. And -
Allen: And the uh - south here would be where I crossed over.
Ford: Ok.
Allen: Uh - the first body was found here, the other 2 bodies were found south - up here, right here.
Ford: Ok.
Allen: I believe 27 feet.
Ford: Let's flip this around so maybe we can all see. Where was the first body found?
Allen: About where I'm pointing in this water right here.
Ford: Ok. And where did you cross?
Allen: Up here.
Ford: Ok. How far away -
Allen: Came back down about right there. Uh -
Ford: I thought you found the body when you fell in the water?
Allen: No, not in this photograph here at all - this is not the area.
Ford: That's not what you said?
Allen: The -
Ford: That you didn't -
Allen: I came off of this area right here. No, you're -
Ford: You got back in the water - got out and got back in?
Allen: I crossed over to the other side to walk around to this - to this area where the tennis shoe was up - up the little stream up the ditch.
Ford: So you got back in the water again -
Allen: Yes.
Ford: - looking for the body?
Allen: No. Looking to reach over and grab the tennis shoe.
Ford: Ok. That's all, thank you.
The Court: You can stand down, Mike.
Fogleman: I want to -
The Court: Wait a minute.
Fogleman: - show you uh - state's exhibit 13.
(pause)
(mumbling)
Fogleman: I think I got a little confused listening to all that.
(giggles)
Fogleman: If you would step down - Your Honor, we would offer state's exhibit 13.
Price: No objection.
The Court: Alright, it may be recieved.
Davis: Your Honor,
(mumbling)
Fogleman: If you could take this pointer and point to the areas where you're talking about and where the plateau is.
Allen: Ok. This - let me get my bearings straight here. I came in here, this pipe. Ok. I came across this pipe. Came up and into the woods. Um - here is what I'm calling the west bank. This here is what I'm calling the east bank. Um - I crossed - I'm not sure where these reference points are because I didn't take 'em, but I crossed - there's a high bank right through here and I crossed to the south of this high bank where there was - in the photographs - to this side and came around a little steep, there's a little bit of a bank here, came around to this flat plateau where the tennis shoe was found.
Fogleman: Is that flat plateau that area that's in white in there and the green and blue?
Allen: I would assume, I hadn't - yes. Uh - reference to trees - I know that they - yes, that would be because I remember they spray painted this tree right here that was on this side uh - spray painted it as a reference point for measurements and that would be the flat bank there.
Fogleman: Ok. Alright.
Allen: The flat bank that's -
Fogleman: I don't have any further questions.
Price: Nothing further, Judge.
Ford: May I look to determine whether I've got a question or not?
(pause)
Ford: That's all I have.
The Court: Alright, you may stand down. Call your next witness.
