Fogleman: Call Narlene Hollingsworth.


The Court: Come all the way up here, please ma'am. Just slide on around here. Please raise your right hand to be sworn. Swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth in the matter now pending before the court so help you God?

Hollingsworth: Yes.

The Court: Have a seat.

Fogleman: Narlene, would you state your name and where you live for the jury.

Hollingsworth: Um - Lakeshore Estate.

Fogleman: Alright and what's your name?

Hollingsworth: Narlene Hollingsworth.

Fogleman: Alright. Are you scared, Narlene?

Hollingsworth: Yeah. Little bit nervous.

Fogleman: Ok. Just relax, nobody's going to do anything to ya, alright. Narlene, I want to direct your attention to uh - to uh - Wednesday, May the 5th, 1993. Uh - on that date uh - did you and some of your family members go to pick up uh - Dixie at the laundrymat?

Hollingsworth: Yes, we did.

Fogleman: Alright. And where did Dixie - where was the laundrymat?

Hollingsworth: It's on Ingram.

Fogleman: Ok. And um - how did - why did ya'll go pick her up, how did you come to go pick her up?

Hollingsworth: Well see, we spent most our day together, Dixie and I did. And we had lunch together. And she asked me that day, would I come back and pick her up.

Fogleman: Alright. And you know about what time she got off work?

Hollingsworth: Well, she got off at 10, but we got there a little early.

Fogleman: Alright. And about what time did ya'll leave home to go get her?

Hollingsworth: Exactly 9:30.

Fogleman: Alright. And who all went with you?

Hollingsworth: I had all my children with me.

Fogleman: How many is that?

Hollingsworth: Well, it's Mary, Ricky, Tabitha, Anthony. And my ex-husband, which was my husband at that time, he was with us.

Fogleman: Alright. And how old are the children?

Hollingsworth: And I had a little girl name Sombra with me.

Fogleman: Ok. And how old are the children?

Hollingsworth: Well, Ricky's 14 -

Fogleman: Uh huh. He's small though, is that right?

Hollingsworth: Well he was 13 at that time.

Fogleman: Alright.

Hollingsworth: And Mary was 10.

Fogleman: Ok.

Hollingsworth: And Anthony was 21.

Fogleman: Ok.

Hollingsworth: And Tabitha was 16.

Fogleman: Ok. How - do you know how old Sombra was?

Hollingsworth: Sombra was 11, I think 11 at that time.

Fogleman: Ok. Now how did ya'll go to get from Lakeshore to the laundrymat?

Hollingsworth: We went straight down the service road, and you - what you do is, you have to pass Love's - you don't go towards 7th st. -

Fogleman: Uh huh.

Hollingsworth: You keep going and you go all the way to the end and then you make that little curve, which takes - which that is Ingram.

Fogleman: Ok. And on your way to the - as you were approaching Love's and Blue Beacon, uh - did you see anybody there on the service road?

Hollingsworth: Yes, we did.

Fogleman: Alright. And who did you see, Narlene?

Hollingsworth: We saw Damien and Domini.

Fogleman: Alright. And uh - is the person you refer to as Damien, is he in the courtroom?

Hollingsworth: Yes sir.

Fogleman: Would you point him out to the jury?

Hollingsworth: He's right there.

Fogleman: Which one?

Hollingsworth: The black headed.

Fogleman: Alright. May the record reflect that the witness has identified the defendant.

The Court: Alright. It may so reflect.

Fogleman: And now, were you driving the car?

Hollingsworth: Yes sir, I was.

Fogleman: Alright. And do you recall what kind of clothes they were wearing?

Hollingsworth: Yes sir.

Fogleman: Alright. Tell us about that.

Hollingsworth: Damien had on a pair of black pants and a dark shirt. Domini had on a pair of tight pants - you know, fit tight. And she had flowers, looked like white flowers to me on her pants.


Hollingsworth: Which I know they were her clothes because 2 or 3 days before that, I saw her with those same clothes on.

Fogleman: Alright. Uh - in fact, Domini's tried to get you to say something different, hasn't she?

Price: Judge, objection! Totally inappropriate, your Honor.

Hollingsworth: I'll answer.

The Court: Wait just a minute.

(courtroom laughter)

The Court: Approach the bench.

(bench conference)


Price: Judge, that calls for a hearsay response.

The Court: Yeah, it does.

Fogleman: Well, your Honor, whether she's just saying it or whether she really means it doesn't make any difference if she's saying - trying to get her somehow to change her testimony, but if - you know, whatever the court feels, that's fine. That's fine, your Honor.

The Court: Are you gonna call Domini?

Fogleman: I don't know. She might lie, I don't -

Price: (mumble)

Fogleman: But that's fine.

The Court: Ok.

(open court)

Price: Will you strike that last question, your Honor?

The Court: Well I - I think there was no response, so let's proceed.

Fogleman: Alright, your Honor. Um - Narlene, when you saw these uh - Damien and Domini on the service road, did you do anything with your lights?

Hollingsworth: Yes sir, I did.

Fogleman: What did you do?

Hollingsworth: I put the bright lights on to be sure.

Fogleman: Alright.

Hollingsworth: That it was them.

Fogleman: Alright. And why - why were you - why did you want to see if it was them?

Hollingsworth: Because I didn't realize there for a second how many I really had in the car with me and it was getting late and Domini was only 14.

Fogleman: And -

Hollingsworth: So I wanted to give them a ride back home. See, I knew I had a few minutes to get to the laundrymat.

Fogleman: But you didn't have any room?

Hollingsworth: No, I looked back and my ex-husband said, "Where are you gonna put 'em?" I said, "Well, I'd put Mary in Domini's lap." and I looked over, he said "Where you gonna put the other one, in Damien's lap?" and I looked at Damien and said, "No, I don't think so."

Fogleman: Alright. I don't have any further questions, your Honor.


Fogleman: Oh, I do have one other question. Uh - Narlene, do you remember Detective Dabbs and Diane Hester coming to talk to you or you coming to talk to them, one or the other?

Hollingsworth: Yes.

Fogleman: Alright. And uh - did you give a tape recorded statement to them?

Hollingsworth: Yes, I did.

Fogleman: Alright. And was that on May the 10th?

Hollingsworth: I think it was.

Fogleman: Ok. Let me show you this and see if that refreshes your memory.


Fogleman: Does that refresh your memory? Is that when it was?

Hollingsworth: It sure was.

Fogleman: I don't have any further questions.

Davidson: When did you talk with the police about this, ma'am?

Hollingsworth: Well, uh - it was Friday. Uh - May the 7th.

Davidson: Friday, May the 7th, ok. And uh - did you talk with them any other times about this?

Hollingsworth: Many times.

Davidson: Many times.

Hollingsworth: I don't know how many times.

Davidson: Ok.

Hollingsworth: But I didn't think it was anything unusual because kids roam the street all the time anyway.

Davidson: Now, that evening when you were down there, you say you left at 9:30 and you were going to pick up your mother?

Hollingsworth: No.

Davidson: Who?

Hollingsworth: It's - it's my ex-husband's use to be step mother.

Davidson: Your ex-husband's step mother.

Hollingsworth: Yes.

Davidson: And you were going to pick her up uh - at a laundrymat?

Hollingsworth: Yes sir, she got off at 10:00.

Davidson: At 10:00. Now, uh - what route did you all take?

Hollingsworth: We went down the service road, all the way to the end til we got to uh - Ingram.

Davidson: So you were on the service road the entire time?

Hollingsworth: Yes sir, then we got off on Ingram.

Davidson: Until you got on Ingram?

Hollingsworth: Yes.

Davidson: And is Ingram uh - on past where you saw - say that you saw Domini and Damien?

Hollingsworth: Way past that, you -

Davidson: Way past that, ok. Now um - you told Mr. Fogleman that you wanted to stop there, is that right?

Hollingsworth: Yes sir.

Davidson: And uh - why did you want to stop?

Hollingsworth: Well, I wanted to stop and pick 'em up.

Davidson: Ok.

Hollingsworth: Give 'em a ride so - so Domini wouldn't be on the street. I'm a real funny person about that and I don't think young children ought to be on the street after dark.

Davidson: Ok. And how old was Domini?

Hollingsworth: 14.

Davidson: Are you sure about that?

Hollingsworth: I'm pretty sure she was 14.

Davidson: Ok. And did - was there another reason you felt like you ought to stop?

Hollingsworth: Yes sir.

Davidson: And what was that reason?

Hollingsworth: I was getting sick.

Davidson: Why were you getting sick?

Hollingsworth: I don't know.

Davidson: You don't know?

Hollingsworth: No sir. I just started feeling like all of a sudden I wanted to throw up.

Davidson: Felt like you wanted to throw up?

Hollingsworth: Yes sir.

Davidson: And is that when you passed them?

Hollingsworth: Yes sir, I was passed them and got down the street and tried to stop where I could throw up.

Davidson: And you stopped to throw up?

Hollingsworth: I stopped for a second and then went on 'cause they kept hollering - the kids kept hollering "Let's go on, let's go, you can get sick when we get there."

(courtroom laughter)

Davidson: Ok. Did you actually stop - were you driving?

Hollingsworth: I was driving, but I slowed down a little bit -

Davidson: Ok, you -

Hollingsworth: - 'Cause I was feeling sick and I sure didn't wanna throw up in the car.

Davidson: Why were you feeling sick?

Hollingsworth: I don't know sir, it just - something hit me all of a sudden, I just started getting sick. I have no idea why.

Davidson: Ok.

Fogleman: Your Honor, is all this really relevant?

Davidson: I think it is, your Honor.

The Court: Alright, go ahead.

Davidson: Now, was there a reason that you wanted to stop there at Robinhood?

Hollingsworth: Aw, I didn't want to stop at Robinhood.

Davidson: Ok.

Hollingsworth: It was in front of - almost when I got to Love's that I wanted to stop.

Davidson: Well -

Hollingsworth: - And I didn't want to - well, I - the kids wanted to get out of the area as fast as I did - I don't know why sir, I just started getting sick.

Davidson: Everybody wanted to get out of there, is that right?

Hollingsworth: Well, they wanted to go on to the laundrymat. They always do that when they go to the store, go somewhere. They're always in a hurry.

Davidson: Ok. And now when you passed Love's, is that before you get to Robinhood wood area? Before you get to the Blue Beacon or after?

Hollingsworth: Um - I don't know because I don't hardly ever go that way and really pay attention to everything.

Davidson: Ok.

Hollingsworth: 'Cause I never go to that car wash anyway, I go out Marion.

Davidson: Ok. So you don't take your car to the car wa - the truck wash?

Hollingsworth: No, I ain't never been there. No sir.

Davidson: Ok. What uh - what kind of vehicle were you driving?

Hollingsworth: I was driving a '82, Ford Escort, red.

Davidson: A red Ford Escort, ok. And uh - did you have a dream about that?

Hollingsworth: No sir.

Davidson: Didn't have a dream about - about stopping there?

Hollingsworth: No sir.

Davidson: Have you made statements that you were born to know things and that you knew that something was wrong after the -

Hollingsworth: - Well, I knew - I knew something was wrong because the - I knew the children were missing earlier.

Davidson: Ok, so this -

Hollingsworth: - I knew that wasn't right for three eight year olds to be missing like that and it getting late.

Davidson: Ok. Now uh - had you seen these uh - three children earlier that day?

Hollingsworth: Yes sir, I did.

Davidson: Where did you see 'em?

Hollingsworth: I saw 'em going down Weaver School - in front of Weaver School on bicycles.

Davidson: On bicycles?

Hollingsworth: Yes sir.

Davidson: How many kids were there?

Hollingsworth: Well, I saw uh - three bicycles. I saw one little heavy set boy on a red one with black on it on this side. And he's the one I almost ran over, I liked to hit him.

Davidson: You liked to hit him?

Hollingsworth: Yes sir. He come out in front of me all at once and I almost ran over him.

Davidson: When was this?

Hollingsworth: It maybe been at uh - about 5 or 5:10. And reason why I know it was those little boys is because Sombra was in the car with me again because I couldn't find her mother to put her with her because I wasn't suppose to take her with me 'cause I took L.G. home for the second time that day, he come back again, I had to take - all the way back home again.

Davidson: Ok.

Hollingsworth: So I really didn't want to take him home again and he said "If you don't, I'm gonna walk." So, I took him. And I was already tired and I already had a wreck that day - early that day, I had a wreck.

Davidson: You had a wreck.

Hollingsworth: So see, that's a day you don't forget, when you have a day like that.

Davidson: Ok.

(courtroom laughter)

Hollingsworth: And when you got Tabitha and L.G. in the car with you at the same time, you don't forget that either.

(courtromm still laughing)

Davidson: You don't forget it with Tabitha and L.G. being with you?

Hollingsworth: Oh no, you can't forget that day. Anyway, uh - when I was going down that road, the little boy just whipped right out in front of me. He was in a big hurry to get somewhere. And the other little boy on the other bicycle was a little blonde headed boy, with his little hair sticking up. And Sombra raised up in the seat - in the back seat, and said, "Oh, I know them." I said, "You don't know them, they live over here and we way over there. Now sit down before you get me a ticket and put your seatbelt on." She said, "No, I really do, that's Steve Branch, I play with him everyday, all the time I see him. My momma knows him." I said, "Well, sit down for right now and let's - let's get home." I said, "I done had a rough day and I'm ready to go home."

Davidson: Ok.

Hollingsworth: So, we went on and - well, I tell - I slowed down and talked - said something to the little boys though. I said, "Ya'll need to get on off the street and go home." Which I didn't know where they lived but she said she knew 'em so I said, "Go home." And they said, "Well, we gonna play a little while and then we're going home."

Davidson: And around what time was that that you saw them?

Hollingsworth: It was about 10 minutes after 5.

Davidson: 10 after 5?

Hollingsworth: It was about that time, now I don't know exactly.

Davidson: Ok. And who was with you then?

Hollingsworth: All my children.

Davidson: All of 'em?

Hollingsworth: All of 'em except Anthony and he was - he wasn't with me then.

Davidson: Ok. Does Anthony live with ya?

Hollingsworth: Yes, he lives on my land.

Davidson: On your land?

Hollingsworth: Yes sir.

Davidson: He live out in the yard?

Hollingsworth: Well, he - I wouldn't say that. He lives - he lives in a camper.

Davidson: Ok.

Hollingsworth: He eats with me but he stays in the camper. He has to.

Davidson: He has to?

Hollingsworth: Yes.

Davidson: Why does he have to?

Fogleman: Your Honor, I -

Hollingsworth: Sir, I don't really want to answer that.

Fogleman: - Don't see where this has anything to do -

The Court: I'm have a little bit of trouble following your - your line of uh - thought as far as what uh - is relevant.

Hollingsworth: Well, he didn't kill nobody.

The Court: Wait just a minute. Don't -

(courtroom laughter)

Hollingsworth: I just wanted you to know that.

The Court: You just wait a minute, you answer the questions, ok.

Hollingsworth: Sorry.

The Court: Alright.

Davidson: Ok.

The Court: Are you objecting to relevancy?

Fogleman: I'm objecting to the relevancy.

The Court: Sustain.

Davidson: Thank you, yor Honor. After going to uh - after seeing the boys over by Weaver, did you then go over uh - you know where Highland trailer court is?

Hollingsworth: Yes sir, I do.

Davidson: Ok. And uh - did you go over there?

Hollingsworth: Yes sir, I did.

Davidson: And uh - what were you doing over there?

Hollingsworth: Well - well my uh - daughter and her husband was into it. She kept saying she wanted to move and she asked me earlier that day, would I go over there and check on a place to live for her and talk to a man name David Dees that rents out mobile homes. And I told her if I had time I would. I figured if I could do all that stuff for everybody all day, I could do something for her.

The Court: Mr. Davidson, is this relevant?

Davidson: Yes, it is, your Honor.

The Court: Leading to anything relevant?

Davidson: Yes, it is, your Honor.

The Court: Alright, go ahead.

Fogleman: Could we approach and see what it is?

The Court: Yeah.

(bench conference)

The Court: Where in the hell are we getting at?

Davidson: She saw Jessie Misskelley over there at 6:30.

Fogleman: Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Your Honor, how is that relevant?

The Court: Well, I don't know.

Davidson: I presume you may be bringing him in on the case file, I need to lay this one out there.

The Court: Saw him - saw him where at 6:30?

Davidson: Highland trailer park.

Fogleman: Wait a minute.

Price: At the trailer park.

The Court: Was anybody else there?

Davidson: We'll ask her, I don't know.

Fogleman: Judge, wait a minute.

The Court: What do you mean wait a minute?

Fogleman: What difference does it make? We hadn't put - if we put him on, they can bring her back in -

Davidson: Yeah, it's relevant, your Honor.

Price: It's relevant, your Honor.

The Court: Well you yourself said you don't know how it's relevant.

Davidson: Yeah - I - Well, I do in that you have listed as a witness on your witness list, Jessie Misskelley. So, if he comes in here, he was not there, he was over there -

Fogleman: Well, you can bring her back on.

Davidson: Why should I have to bring her back, Judge, it's not proffer at this point in time.

Price: Surely.

Fogleman: How? What relevance does it have?

Davidson: You've been talking about him all day long.

Fogleman: I hadn't talked about him.

Price: They call this witness to identify people that he - that she saw at different times. If the state's alledging -

The Court: Why are you - where is the witness trying to put him? Huh?

Davidson: At Highland park.

Price: At Highland trailer park at 6:30.

The Court: What difference does it make?

Fogleman: That's fine, your Honor, we don't have any objection.

The Court: Alright, go ahead.

(open court)

Davidson: And when you were over at Highland trailer park, um - uh - did you witness uh - or were you there when there was a group of people out there?

Hollingsworth: No sir.

Davidson: Did you see Jessie Misskelley that day?

Hollingsworth: No sir, not that day. I saw him Thursday.

Davidson: Thursday.

Hollingsworth: Yes sir. I was thinking there for a little while that I saw him that Wednesday, but I remembered I went back over there on Thursday, and it was Thursday when I saw him. And I hollered at him three times before he turned around and answered me. I said, "Jessie, are you mad at me?" He said, "No ma'am, I could never be mad at you."

Davidson: Ok.

Hollingsworth: And I said - he said, "I just didn't hear you, I'm sorry."

Davidson: Ok. Now uh - so you didn't see him that day that you went over there -

Hollingsworth: - No sir.

Davidson: - With your - ok. Now you've told us that - have you said earlier that you saw him on that day?

Hollingsworth: Yes sir, I was thinking it was Wednesday, but it was Thursday.

Davidson: Ok. Now uh - let's go back to uh - the night hat you say that you saw Domini and Damien. Um - what was Damien wearing?

Hollingsworth: Black.

Davidson: Well, tell me - what kind of shirt did he have on?

Hollingsworth: All I remember is it was dark. I do remember the pants, it wasn't real tight pants - it's kinda baggy.

Davidson: Ok. What kind of uh - did he have a hat on?

Hollingsworth: No, he didn't have a hat.

Davidson: Uh - have shoes on?

Hollingsworth: Sir, I didn't notice them.

Davidson: Don't know what kind of shoes he had on. Um - and uh -

Hollingsworth: I mostly looked at his face to be sure that it was -

The Court: Wait a minute. Just answer questions and then if you need to explain your answer, I'm gonna let ya. But don't just start talking.

Hollingsworth: Oh.

The Court: If you need to talk in response to a question, ofcourse I'm gonna allow you to do that, but don't -

Hollingsworth: Yes sir.

Davidson: Who is L.G.? You mentioned L.G. awhile ago, being in - with Tabitha.

Hollingsworth: Yes sir.

Davidson: Who - who is L.G.? What is his last name first of all?

Hollingsworth: Well, he's my ex-husband's son, which is -

Davidson: So, it'd be your step son - at one time he was your step son then?

Hollingsworth: No.

Davidson: No?

Hollingsworth: No, I'm - I'm his aunt through marriage. It's just by marriage.

Davidson: You're his aunt by marriage. But he's your ex-husband's son?

Hollingsworth: Yes sir. I know it's confusing.

Davidson: I'm confused on that one. Now, L.G. is your -

Hollingsworth: - Ex-husband's -

Davidson: - Ex-husband's son, but you're his aunt by marriage, how did that happen?

The Court: Is that really relevant, let's don't try to sort it out.

(courtroom laughter)

Davidson: Ok. So, who is L.G.? He is your - well, L.G., his last name's Hollingsworth?

Hollingsworth: Right.

Davidson: Ok. And you had been with him that day, is that correct?

Hollingsworth: (assume indicating)

Davidson: And L.G. uh - I guess you're probabl aware - he's been talked to alot from the police, is that right?

Hollingsworth: Well, yes, I know he has talked to 'em.

Davidson: In fact, he's been a suspect in this crime, hasn't he?

Hollingsworth: Well, I don't know - probably.

Davidson: How many times you think L.G. has been up there to the police?

Hollingsworth: Well, I know of once. One time, I know.

Fogleman: Your Honor -

Hollingsworth: I don't know about any other times.

Fogleman: - If we want to go through every thought behind people that talked to them, we'll be here for months.

Davidson: Goes to credibility, your Honor. He's some type of relation -

The Court: Alright, you've asked her if she knows if he's been talked to and she says that once, ok - as I recall. So -

Davidson: - Ok.

The Court: - Ask her again if you want to, but let's get on with it.

Davidson: Do you know if he's talked more than once to 'em?

Hollingsworth: I don't know.

Davidson: Ok. Hold on just a second.


Davidson: Your Honor, we need to approach the bench.

The Court: Well, I'm gonna - if ya'll are gonna keep on with this witness, I'm gonna have to take a recess.

Price: Just a minute, Judge, we -

The Court: - How much longer ya'll gonna be?

Davidson: Well, I may - I don't mind if we recess.

The Court: Pardon?

Davidson: I don't mind if we recess.

The Court: Alright.

(bench conference)

Fogleman: Judge, if I overheard Mr. Price correctly, what they're doing is getting ready to ask her things like, did they take blood and hair samples from L.G., how many times that -

Davidson: - I'm not asking that.

The Court: Ya'll are not getting in to all that stuff.

Davidson: I'm not asking -

(talking over-mumble)

Davidson: Do you wanna take a break, your Honor?

The Court: Well, if you can finish in just a short period of time, I will. But if -

Davidson: Well, I can't - I don't know how it will come out.


The Court: Huh? Alright. Let's take a recess.

(open court)

The Court: Alright ladies and gentlemen, with the usual admonition not to discuss the case, you may stand in recess for - if I say 10 minutes, it'll be 20, so let's say 15 and maybe it'll work.

(bench conference)

Ford: Unless something changes throughout the rest of her testimony, when she's completed, we would ask for an instruction that this evidence is to be considered only against Damien Echols as there has been no connection for this - from this evidence to Jason Baldwin.

Fogleman: Your Honor, I think the jury can conclude whatever they want to.

Ford: Well, your Honor, yesterday there was an instruction given that evidence uh - about Mr. Carson was to be considered only against uh - Jason and today this -

The Court: Yeah, because that was uh - specific uh - testimony with regard to a statement that he had made and that shouldn't have been applied to - but here, it's kind of a general testimony about seeing one of them in the locale - I mean, I - I'm afraid if I said that, I might be commenting on a way that - that could be attributed to this particular piece of evidence. Now, I didn't have any problem on the statement.

Ford: Your Honor, we're asking for that instruction. This witness identified Damien and Domini at the roadside. There is no testimony whatsoever from either of these last two witnesses that Jason was there and the - you know good and well that the state is going to argue that she's wrong and that she is really seeing Jason and that's speculation, that's -

The Court: I don't know, I'm just saying that -

Ford: - Just junk and what you're doing, Judge, is you're allowing them to do that. When this witness says "No, it's Domini." And we're asking that you give an instruction that this applies only to Damien, since Jason has not been mentioned.

The Court: Well, do you have other evidence that's going to suggest that Jason could've been there and that she was mistaken?

Fogleman: Your Honor, we're going to have other evidence that Jason had shoulder length hair, that he was 5'8", weighed about 112 lbs. at the time.

Ford: Your Honor, that - that is - they're trying to say that - that's crazy, your Honor. That's crazy. That's crazy doing -

The Court: Alright, I'm not sure if it is crazy. I'm - I mean, it may be a reasonable interest that they could draw from her testimony, If I gave an instruction they couldn't consider it, then the first thing you're going to do is say "Well look, the Judge told you not to consider it." so they can't make that argument.

Ford: That's exactly right 'cause they shouldn't be allowed to make that argument.

The Court: I'm not going to do it. I - I'll give this one little generic instruction sometime during the day that they're reminded that they should consider the evidence as individual -

Ford: Why ask for it when this witness gets done?

The Court: I'm not going to do it on this witness. Not with the - my understanding that they're going to argue it, that she's mistaken on -

Ford: Well, your Honor -

The Court: - And have other evidence.

Ford: So - so the reason you're - so the reason you're denying my motion's because you're going to allow the state to make an arguement that this witness is wrong. You're going to allow them to make that arguement to the jury. And as a proffer arguement.

The Court: Sure.


Ford: Your Honor, based on that, I remove - I renew my motion for severence.

The Court: Denied.

Davidson: Ready to proceed, your Honor?

The Court: Yes.

(open court)

Davidson: Just have a few more questions for you, Ms. Hollingsworth. When you saw the three boys that afternoon over at Weaver, did you say that was about 5:15?

Hollingsworth: Yes, around that time.

Davidson: Over by Weaver. And where - did you go home after that?

Hollingsworth: Yes sir, I did.

Davidson: Ok. And when you're at home, did you talk to a neighbor there?

Hollingsworth: Yes sir. Uh - I didn't - she come over to my house. Her name is Sheila Joy.

Davidson: Sheila Joy?

Hollingsworth: Yes.

Davidson: And uh - what did you discover at that time?

Hollingsworth: Well, she -

Fogleman: Your Honor, what she discovered is asking for what the person told her, is that what he's asking?

Davidson: Well, I'll rephrase the question.

TheCourt: Alright.

Davidson: When did you find out that the boys were missing?

Hollingsworth: I found out when - as soon as I got back home, about - let's see, I went - put L.G. at home, uh - Sheila Joy came over there, but I don't remember if I had already been to Highland or came back from Highland when she told me the boys were missing.

Davidson: Ok. And uh - so what time would that have been?

Hollingsworth: Uh - well, it had to be around 6:30.

Davidson: About 6:30. Now - ok. And what was her name one more time?

Hollingsworth: Sheila Joy.

Davidson: Joy, ok. Now uh - I asked you earlier about uh - being over at Highland trailer park. And you said, "Well, maybe it wasn't on the 5th - it was on the 6th." You recall that? Do you recall writing a letter to Jessie Misskelley, Sr.?

Hollingsworth: Yes, I did.

Davidson: And could you tell us what you told him in that letter?

Hollingsworth: Yes sir. I told him that I had - saw Jessie that Wednesday evening at 6:30 - a quarter til 7, something around that time 'cause it only takes me about 10 minutes to get from my house, but I was wrong.

Davidson: And -

Hollingsworth: 'Cause I had went over there Thursday.

Davidson: Now, when did you wrte this letter, do you know?

Hollingsworth: No sir, I don't remember the date.

Davidson: Did you send it to him or did you take it to him, remember what happened?

Hollingsworth: I went over there. And talked to him.

Davidson: Ok. And uh - do you recall about when that was - what month of the year that was? When did you decide that maybe that wasn't the truth?

Hollingsworth: After I thought about each day and what I did on those days and I realized. And the children refreshed my memory too by saying, "Mother, that was Thursday that we saw him."

Davidson: Ok.

Hollingsworth: And it was, it was Thursday that we saw him.

Davidson: Was it after the proecutor had talked with ya about this?

Hollingsworth: Uh - No, I don't think so.

Davidson: Had you already talked to him - well, when did you write the letter, let me ask you that.

Hollingsworth: Uh -

Davidson: I'm sorry, I think you said you didn't remember when you wrote it. I'm not trying to trick ya, I'm just trying to figure out here.

Hollingsworth: I don't - I'm trying to think.

Davidson: Um - so you wrote the letter, uh - do you remember what month it was in?

Hollingsworth: It was after he had already been picked up, I do know that.

Davidson: Ok, do you - you remember when he was picked up?

Hollingsworth: No, I don't.

Davidson: Ok. After Jessie Misskelley, Jr. was picked up, you wrote a letter sometime after that.

Hollingsworth: Yes sir, I really wanted to help and I was thinking that it was that Wednesday that I'd - I saw him.

Davidson: Ok. But you and your family got together and talked about this.

Hollingsworth: Well, yeah and - we did, and I realized it was - it was Thursday, too.

Davidson: Ok. Um - so do you recall when you gave statements to the police?

Hollingsworth: Yes, I know when I did that.

Davidson: And do you recall when those statements were?

Hollingsworth: Well, I know it was on a Friday. About the - well, I told them, but I gave statements - probably around the 9th or 10th. Like - Mr. Fogleman said.

Davidson: 9th or 10th of May?

Hollingsworth: Uh - yes.

Davidson: Is that sometime before Jessie Misskelley was uh - uh - was arrested? But you talked with them later too, didn't ya?

Hollingsworth: Yes sir.

Davidson: Ok. Did you go to Mr. Fogleman's office and talk with him about it?

Hollingsworth: No sir.

Davidson: Never did, ok. Did uh - you always went to the police station?

Hollingsworth: Ye - well, they come to me most of the time.

Davidson: Ok. Now uh - you - this Ford Escort that you have um - what color is that again?

Hollingsworth: It was red.

Davidson: Now, do you believe that uh - when you passed them, uh - did Domini and Damien wave at ya?

Hollingsworth: No, they did not.

Davidson: Uh - did they uh - would they have recognized that car?

Hollingsworth: They probably would've.

Davidson: Why?

Hollingsworth: Because Domini lives in the same park that I do and Domini sees me in that car almost everyday.

Davidson: Ok, are you about the only one you know around there with a red Ford Escort?

Hollingsworth: That I know of.

Davidson: Ok. Now, one minute, your Honor.


The Court: Is that light working better for you today?


The Court: Is anyone having trouble hearing today?


Davidson: Ok. Ms. Hollingsworth, uh - I've got a calendar that starts in May of '93 and goes through January of '94. Can you see this?

Hollingsworth: Yes sir, I can.

Davidson: In looking at that, does that help you to - to uh - determine when you may have changed your mind about uh - about seeing Jessie over there?

Hollingsworth: No sir, I really don't remember.

Davidson: You don't remember?

Hollingsworth: No, and looking at the calendar wouldn't help.

Davidson: That doesn't help you any?

Hollingsworth: No.

Davidson: Well, do you remember if it was in May or June?

Hollingsworth: It was probably in June.

Davidson: Or June or July?

Hollingsworth: No sir. It was probably June.

Davidson: Probably in June?

Hollingsworth: Yes sir, 'cause I didn't know - I didn't know the boys were even involved in anything like that til June.

Davidson: What - can you remember when in June you may have seen that or recall that?

Hollingsworth: (indicating)

Davidson: Is that answer, no?

Hollingsworth: The answer's no.

Davidson: Has uh - has Damien ever driven your car?

Hollingsworth: No sir.

Davidson: That's all.

Fogleman: You've had a lot of conversations with me over the telephone, isn't that right?

Hollingsworth: Yes sir, I've talked to you on the phone.

Fogleman: Alright. And isn't it true Narlene that you've not told me anything about Jessie. My questions have always been about Damien.

Hollingsworth: Right.

Fogleman: Alright. And Mr. Lax sitting over here, uh - in the back, he's talked to you several times too, hadn't he?

Hollingsworth: A couple of times.

Fogleman: Ok.

Davidson: Nothing further, your Honor. Subject to recall.

Ford: No questions.

The Court: Alright, you may stand down.

Davidson: So, your Honor, we're not releasing her to rule uh - I doubt that we'll need her, but if we do, subject to recall.

The Court: Well, I'm not going to make her stay in the courthouse. She -

Davidson: - No -

The Court: You're free to go home, but - but if we need you again we'll have to -

Price: - Sometimes this week, maybe.

Fogleman: That's fine, your Honor.

The Court: Alright. Alright, call your next witness.

Fogleman: Call Kermit Channell.