Having been first duly sworn to speak the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, then testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. FOGLEMAN:
Q. Will you please state your name and occupation?
A. Mike Allen. I’m a detective sergeant with the West Memphis Police Department.
Q. Detective Allen, I want to direct your attention to June 3rd of 1993. Did you have occasion to come into contact with the defendant Jessie Misskelley, Junior on that date?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And how did you come to come in contact with him?
A. During our morning meeting I was advised by Inspector Gitchell -- we were discussing who we needed to contact that day in reference to this investigation and his name was one of the names of -- many names that we needed to talk to and I told him that I knew Jessie Misskelley, Senior and I would attempt to contact Jessie Misskelley, Junior to bring him into the station.
Q. Do you know what time you left the police department?
A. At 9:13 I checked in service leaving the police department.
Q. You know that from the radio log?
A. Yes.
Q. After you checked in service, where did you go?
A. I drove to Highland trailer park which is located north of West Memphis.
Q. When you got to Highland park, what did you do?
A. I went to the residence of Jessie Misskelley, Senior.
Q. Was the defendant there?
A. No, sir. I knocked on the door and a female -- I believe her name was Lee Rush -- came to the door and told me Jessie Misskelley, Junior was not there.
MR. STIDHAM: Your Honor, may I inquire of the witness if he can testify -- it is obvious he is using his notes to testify to. Might I inquire of him whether or not he has an independent recollection of these events?
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. STIDHAM: Officer Allen, do you have any independent recollection of --
THE WITNESS: I remember going out there that morning.
MR. STIDHAM: Is it possible for you to testify without using your notes that you made?
THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: That doesn’t mean that you cannot refer to your notes for specific time references and anything that might benefit your recollection. You may refer to them if you need to.
BY MR. FOGLEMAN:
Q. I think we were at the point where you had been to Jessie Misskelley, Senior’s -- is it a trailer or house?
A. It is a trailer house.
Q. You were told by the lady of the house that Jessie Junior was not there?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did she give you some instruction of where to go?
A. She told me Jessie Misskelley, Senior was at work at Jim’s Diesel Service, which is located as you would come into Highland Trailer Park.
Q. Did you go there?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. When you got there, what did you do?
A. I contacted Jessie Misskelley, Senior and asked him about the whereabouts of Jessie Misskelley, Junior.
Q. In response to that conversation what happened?
A. He informed me that he knew where Jessie Misskelley was (?) he would go and get him and bring him back up to the diesel place.
Q. Did he do that?
A. Yes, sir, he did.
Q. After he got back up there, what happened?
A. I asked Jessie Misskelley, Junior if he would come with (?) to the police department. I needed to talk to him in reference to this case.
Q. Was his father there?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What was the defendant’s response?
A. The defendant’s response was that -- sure, he would go.
Q. Did he accompany you to the police department?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was he handcuffed?
A. No.
Q. Was he in the front seat or backseat?
A. He was in the front seat.
Q. After the defendant got in the car, where did you go?
A. We went to the police department.
Q. After getting to the police department, what did you do?
A. We went upstairs to the detective division where I filled out a standard subject description form and basically talked with him.
Q. Do you know what time you filled out the subject description form?
A. The subject description form was filled out around ten o’clock that morning.
MR. FOGLEMAN: (HANDING) Do you have any objection to that?
MR. STIDHAM: (EXAMINING) No.
THE COURT: It may be received.
(STATE’S EXHIBIT EIGHT IS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE)
BY MR. FOGLEMAN:
Q. I want to hand you what has been introduced as Exhibit Eight. Can you identify that?
A. (EXAMINING) This is a copy of the subject description form that I filled out on Jessie Misskelley, Junior.
Q. Where did you get the information to complete the form?
A. From Jessie Misskelley, Junior.
Q. After you filled out the subject description form, did you have a conversation with Jessie Junior?
A. Yes, sir, I did.
Q. Who was present?
A. Detective Bryn Ridge.
Q. At this point did you advise him of his rights?
A. Not at this point. No, sir. Basically talking to him he --
Q. Was he a suspect at that time?
A. No, sir, he was not.
Q. And after you talked to him for a while -- do you know how long you talked to him before you advised him of his rights?
A. It was roughly about an hour.
Q. You may have already answered this, but who else was present?
A. Detective Bryn Ridge.
Q. Was he in there the whole time?
A. The -- I would say the majority of the time. He had went in and out a few times.
Q. Do you have the original of the advice of rights that you used?
A. Yes, I do.
MR. FOGLEMAN: (HANDING)
MR. STIDHAM: No objection.
THE COURT: It may be received.
(STATE’S EXHIBIT NINE IS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE)
BY MR. FOGLEMAN:
Q. I want to show you what has been introduced as State’s Exhibit Nine. Do you recognize that?
A. (EXAMINING) This is a rights form that is used by the West Memphis Police Department that was typed up by me that was read to Jessie Misskelley, Junior.
Q. How did you advise him of his rights?
A. Verbally advised him of this -- went over this rights form with him, read this rights form to him and read each one of the rights to him.
Q. After you read each right to him, did he indicate whether or not he understood the right?
A. He stated he understood his rights.
Q. How did he indicate that understanding?
A. “You understand” -- for instance, “You understand you have the right to remain silent.” He said, “Yes, I understand.”
Q. Did you ask him to do something on the form?
A. He initialed each one of the rights and indicated verbally that he did understand each one of those rights.
Q. After you advised him of those rights, was something done about the waiver of rights portion?
A. He stated that he understood his rights, that he was willing to make a statement or answer questions and signed the bottom of the sheet.
Q. Did you see him sign it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you use force, promises, threats or coercion either to get him to place his initials by each right or sign the form?
A. No, sir.
Q. After you advised him of his rights, did you talk to him anymore?
A. We talked to him about taking a polygraph exam.
Q. Who else was present?
A. Detective Bryn Ridge.
Q. In regard to that examination what was his response?
THE COURT: Let me ask you. Did you say after you had talked to him and obtained a statement from him?
THE WITNESS: This was -- we just basically took notes about -- he wasn’t a suspect at that time -- about -- we were talking to him about another individual that was a suspect at that time from the time we were talking to him. And then we advised him of his rights at 11:00 o’clock.
BY MR. FOGLEMAN:
Q. In what he said to you before you advised him of his rights -- well, what led you to advise him of his rights?
A. From talking to him, there were several things that he had said that indicated that he may not have been telling the truth.
Q. Was that based on prior information you had from other witnesses?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. After this conversation about the polygraph, what happened?
A. After we asked him if he would take a polygraph exam, he stated that he didn’t have any problem with taking a polygraph exam. I then went and talked to Bill Durham who is the West Memphis polygraph examiner and asked him if he could give him a polygraph exam.
Q. Did you find out that you had to do something else before you could do that?
A. Yes. He informed me that I needed to get permission -- the state requirements to give a polygraph exam -- if they are under 18 that you have to get permission from their father or parent or guardian for the person under 18 to take a polygraph exam.
Q. After finding this out, what did you do?
A. Myself and Jessie Misskelley, Junior went to we -- were on route to Jim’s diesel to contact his father, Jessie Senior.
Q. He went with you?
A. Yes, sir, he did.
Q. Where did he ride in the car?
A. He rode in the front seat.
Q. Was he handcuffed?
A. No, sir.
Q. And where did you end up finding Jessie Senior? Do you know what time this was?
A. This would have been -- it would have been after 11:00 o’clock. I’m not real certain, ten minutes after eleven.
Q. Where did you run into Jessie Misskelley, Senior?
A. We were northbound and we observed -- Jessie junior said, “There’s my dad,” and he was in some kind of truck southbound and Jessie went to flag his father down and his father indicated like he was going up here. We turned around at the McDonald’s Exxon service station lot and went back to Chief Auto Parts on Missouri Street, and on the parking lot is where we talked to his father about Jessie taking a polygraph exam.
Q. Who talked to him?
A. I did.
Q. Was anybody else present?
A. Jessie Misskelley, Junior.
Q. Jessie Junior was there?
A. Yes, sir.
MR. FOGLEMAN: (HANDING)
MR. STIDHAM: Do you have the original?
THE WITNESS: I feel sure Officer Durham would have that.
MR. STIDHAM: I don’t have an objection -- you took that form to get it signed?
THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
MR. STIDHAM: Did you sign that form?
THE WITNESS: I would have to look at the form. I do not recall. I remember Jessie Senior signed the form like against the back of a truck or hood of a vehicle in the parking lot.
MR. STIDHAM: My concern is, Officer, your signature looks like a stamp.
THE WITNESS: That is my signature witnessed by me.
MR. FOGLEMAN: We will get the original.
THE WITNESS: That is my signature.
BY MR. FOGLEMAN:
Q. Do you have a signature stamp?
A. No, sir.
Q. Referring to State’s Exhibit Ten, and what did you do with that form?
A. I got permission from Jessie Misskelley, Senior to polygraph Jessie Misskelley, Junior.
Q. Did Jessie Senior sign the form?
A. Yes, he did.
Q. Did you use any force, promises, threats or coercion to get Mr. Misskelley Senior to sign the form?
A. No.
Q. Did you have the defendant sign the form or was that done some other time?
A. I do not recall witnessing him signing the form. I think that was explained by Examiner Durham.
MR. FOGLEMAN: We would offer this for identification at this time.
THE COURT: All right. It may be received.
MR. STIDHAM: Your Honor, to make this easier, I don’t have any problem with this coming in through this witness. I was just concerned that it looked like a signature stamp.
MR. FOGLEMAN: We’ll offer it then.
THE COURT: It may be received without objection.
(STATE’S EXHIBIT TEN IS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE)
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. STIDHAM:
Q. Officer Allen, you testified that you were the one who went to pick up Jessie Junior that morning?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You also testified that there was a detective’s meeting that morning?
A. That’s correct.
Q. Why was it decided -- first of all, who was present at that meeting?
A. Every detective at the West Memphis police department. We had morning meetings every morning to discuss what we were doing that particular day in regards to this investigation.
Q. Would that include Officer Durham?
A. Officer Durham would have been present in that meeting.
Q. What was the nature of your discussion with regard to Jessie Misskelley, Junior?
A. The discussion was that his name had come up as one person that we needed to talk to in regards to this.
Q. Why?
A. His name was brought in by a person that said that he was associated with another person that was a suspect, a Damien Echols.
Q. So you learned from someone -- you or one of the other detectives -- that Jessie was an acquaintance or knew Damien Echols?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. That is your testimony?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was Damien Echols a suspect from the very beginning in this case?
A. Damien Echols was. Yes, sir.
Q. Is it true that on the day that the bodies were found that you had Mr. Echols in for questioning on that very day?
A. The day -- I do not recall what day it was that Damien Echols was brought into the police department. The day that the bodies were found I was at the crime scene basically all day long.
Q. You didn’t question Damien Echols on that day?
A. I never questioned Damien Echols, period.
Q. Is it a fair statement that Damien Echols was the prime suspect from day one?
A. The prime suspect?
Q. He was a suspect from day one, was he not?
A. I don’t have knowledge of day one. During the course of the investigation his name came up as a suspect.
Q. You don’t know when the police first questioned him after the murders?
A. No, sir, I wasn’t involved in that per se.
Q. It is fair to say on June third Mr. Echols was a suspect?
A. June third? Yes, sir.
Q. I want to be real careful about not putting words in your mouth but at the detective’s meeting in which Officer Durham was present, it was discussed that Damien was a suspect and that you heard Jessie was an associate of him. Is that correct?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What was the nature of their association?
A. I’m -- I’m -- I was advised that they were associates. I don’t really know how tight they were if that’s what you’re asking me.
Q. I guess what I’m asking you is why -- what information did the detective bureau have that would put or link Jessie Misskelley to Damien Echols?
A. That they were all members of a satanic cult.
Q. At this point did you believe or did detectives in the West Memphis Police Department believe this was a satanic cult killing?
A. There was -- I don’t really know how to answer what you just asked. Do I believe this was a satanic cult killing? I didn’t know at that particular time. It had been brought up.
Q. I’m curious. You say that Damien and Jessie were allegedly members of this cult?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What does that have to do with the murders? What linked that -- what made you think Damien was a suspect?
A. I was advised by Inspector Gitchell to go and talk to -- we were assigned different people to talk to every day, and I was advised to go get Mr. Misskelley and find out if he had any knowledge about Damien Echols.
Q. There was nothing special about the fact that you had heard that they were in this cult that necessarily linked them to the murders, is there?
A. Just that he was -- that we had brought in so many different people during the time period and he was a name that came up that we needed to talk to in reference to Echols.
Q. You were bringing in everybody who had anything to do with Mr. Echols?
A. We were talking to as many people as we possibly could.
Q. You picked Jessie up -- you testified that you went to his trailer and he wasn’t there, and you talked to his father at Jim’s Repair Shop?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And Jessie Senior went to pick up Jessie Junior?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What was the nature of your discussion with Jessie Senior?
A. I advised him I needed to talk to Jessie Junior in regards to this homicide investigation about some so-called friends of his that lived in the Lakeshore area.
Q. Did you use the word “Damien” at all?
A. I don’t recall.
Q. You knew that a couple of weeks or maybe a week prior to June third that Jessie had given you some information about someone he thought might be involved in this?
A. I’m not sure of an exact date of it but he had made a statement about what he had heard.
Q. You’re talking about Mr. Laxton, Tracey Laxton?
A. About the incident, yes, sir.
Q. So you were the officer that Mr. Misskelley talked to prior to June third that he thought Mr. Laxton was involved?
A. No, sir. That was just someone that -- I’m not real sure exactly how that all occurred.
Q. I will just go on because I don’t want to talk about something you’re not sure of.
Was there anyone else present at Jim’s Repair Shop when you got to the shop and asked to speak to Jessie Junior?
A. I would assume that another person that was there that was kind of trying to listen to what me and Jessie Senior were talking about would have been Jim but I don’t know him.
Q. Would that be Jim McNeese?
A. I would assume that was Jim, the owner of the repair shop.
Q. You told Jessie Senior in the presence of Jim, the owner of the repair shop, that you wanted to talk to Jessie Junior about some of his friends -- about this homicide. Is that correct?
A. As I remember it, Mr. McNeese was -- kept kind of scooting over there trying to hear what we were talking about. I don’t know whether he overheard -- don’t think so, but he may have, yes.
Q. Was there any mention about the thirty thousand dollar reward that was available leading to the conviction of the persons responsible for this homicide?
A. I don’t remember that.
Q. Is it possible that you and Mr. McNeese and Mr. Misskelley Senior discussed that?
A. I don’t recall. They -- I would just be assuming that maybe they asked me what the reward was up to.
Q. You don’t deny --
A. I don’t remember.
Q. Do you remember when you went to get Jessie Senior’s signature on the polygraph release form at Chief’s Auto Parts, do you remember talking to Jessie Senior about buying a new truck?
A. I don’t -- that doesn’t sound like it came up in the conversation. We were talking --
Q. You didn’t tell Jessie Senior that, “If Jessie Junior tells us something about who did this” -- there would be a lot of money and Jessie would get the money?
A. They may have asked me what the reward was or something to that line, but I don’t particularly remember that part of the conversation.
Q. You’re not denying it then. You say you don’t remember?
A. They may have asked me what the reward was and I may have told them, but I don’t recall a new truck -- something being talked about a new truck.
Q. You don’t recall Jessie Junior saying, “If I get that thirty thousand dollars, I’m going to buy my daddy a new truck”?
A. No, sir.
Q. Don’t recall that?
A. (SHAKES HEAD)
Q. But you remember going to Chief’s Auto Parts and getting Jessie Senior to sign it?
A. Yes, sir. That’s why I went there was to get Jessie Senior’s permission to polygraph Jessie Junior.
Q. You testified that you did not read Jessie his rights until about an hour after you had questioned him at the police department?
A. Yes, sir. That was when -- that was -- I advised him of his rights prior to asking him whether or not he would take a polygraph exam.
Q. So when you went out to the repair shop and Jessie Senior brought Jessie Junior back to the repair shop, there was never a discussion about Jessie’s rights?
A. At that time he was not a suspect. Just a possible witness or someone that might have had some information.
Q. So what exactly did you tell Jessie Junior when he arrived at the shop?
A. I asked him if he would mind coming to the police department and answer questions about some boys that lived out at Lakeshore.
Q. You didn’t talk about his rights at that point?
A. He was not a suspect at that time.
Q. My question was, did you talk to him about his rights, not whether he was a suspect.
A. No. He voluntarily agreed to accompany me to the police department.
Q. So that subject just never came up?
A. At that point, no.
Q. When you got him down to the police department, you began to ask him the questions regarding name, address -- State’s Exhibit Eight. You talked to him about his name, his address, who his friends were -- those type of things?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You got some friends listed on the back?
A. Um-hum. Asked him who his best friends were and he gave me a list of his best friends.
Q. You mentioned earlier that you knew Jessie Senior. Did you also know Jessie Junior?
A. No, sir, not -- I knew who he was when I saw him. I knew Jessie Senior. I did not know Jessie Junior.
Q. Did you know he was retarded?
MR. FOGLEMAN: I object to that. The proof has been that he is not retarded.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. STIDHAM:
Q. Did you know that he was slow or mentally deficient in any form or fashion?
A. In my opinion he was -- he could understand everything I was telling him and was responding back and didn’t appear to be -- didn’t appear to be slow, no.
MR. STIDHAM: Your Honor, may counsel approach the bench?
(THE FOLLOWING CONFERENCE WAS HELD AT THE BENCH)
MR. STIDHAM: Your Honor, am I not allowed to use the word “mentally retarded” when describing the defendant in this case in spite of what Doctor Wilkins testified to?
MR. FOGLEMAN: Doctor Wilkins testified that he did not make a diagnosis that he was mentally retarded.
THE COURT: He testified completely opposite of what you are contending. He was he was borderline.
MR. STIDHAM: Your Honor, there’s a clinical diagnosis and there’s the State’s definition with regard to the death penalty. We submit that they are different. Doctor Wilkins did testify that Jessie has been diagnosed in the past as being mentally retarded and he had also diagnosed him --
THE COURT: You can talk about him in terms of him being borderline retarded and you can talk about if he had an opinion whether he was retarded. You can ask that kind of things, yes.
(RETURN TO OPEN COURT)
BY MR. STIDHAM:
Q. You testified that Officer Ridge was present during this question and answer session?
A. He came in probably while I was partially through with this subject description form.
Q. Looking at your notes -- first of all without looking at your notes, do you remember what time you began filling out the investigative report?
A. I had taken some notes during the course of talking to Mr. Misskelley.
Q. You filled out Exhibit Eight which is the subject description form?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Then later you filled out an investigative report?
A. This is just some rough notes taken while I was highlighting some things while I was talking to him.
Q. Do you remember what was contained in your notes and what questions you asked him without looking at your notes?
A. The questions -- as far as different questions I would have asked him, I would say I would have a memory of some of the things he told me.
Q. But you don’t remember specifically what questions you asked him without referring to your notes?
A. I don’t think in my notes I have got particular questions. It is highlights of what he told me while I was talking to him.
Q. Do you have a copy of this?
A. Yes, sir, I do.
Q. Those are your notes of what you talked about?
A. This is some highlighted things that I jotted down while I was talking to him.
Q. So you obviously asked him questions because how could he be telling you stuff if you didn’t ask him questions?
A. Yeah, we asked him -- the bulk of this was his knowledge of Damien Echols.
Q. In your notes it says -- said something about Damien said something about Jason Baldwin, said something about Damien’s girlfriend. In the middle of your notes what does he say about a Robert Burch?
A. It was about -- he had heard a rumor that -- he had heard a rumor that Damien and a subject by the name of Robert Burch had did it.
Q. So obviously you asked him, “Do you know about what happened to the boys?”
A. That would be more in the line of, “What have you heard? What do you know?”
Q. You asked him what did he know about the homicides? Is that what you asked him?
A. As far as him being a suspect even at this time when I was doing this, no, sir. It wasn’t in the line of questioning, “Did you do it,” or anything of that nature.
Q. According to your handwritten notes when Jessie told you in response to your question, “Do you know anything about the homicides,” -- “I heard that Damien and Robert Burch did it.” At this point he’s not a suspect?
A. Something he heard is a rumor he had heard. There was a lot of people speculating and telling what they heard.
Q. He wasn’t a suspect at this particular time?
A. At this particular time, no, we were still -- we were trying to find out some information about Damien Echols from him.
Q. What is the next entry in your notes?
A. This is -- the next entry in my notes after that is I asked him where he was at -- if he can remember the day that this happened.
Q. “This” being the homicide?
A. Yes, uh-huh. That he -- if he -- that line of questioning would have more or less been if he can remember what day, if he had seen Damien that day or whatever.
Q. You were not accusing him of doing this because you asked him where he was that day. Is that what you are telling the Court?
A. We asked a lot of people where they were at that day to see if they remembered that day in regards to if they seen, heard or whatever.
Q. I’m a little bit confused because you’re telling me you asked someone where they were on the day of the homicides, yet you didn’t consider them a suspect?
A. That was a question that I asked probably everybody I had talked to up to that point and the other people -- there were a lot of people that I had talked to that were not considered suspects and at this point in my opinion Jessie Misskelley was not a suspect up to this point.
Q. At 11:00 A.M. on 6-3-93 he was not a suspect?
A. At this point he was not -- at what time?
Q. It says in your notes 11:00 A.M. on 6-3-93.
A. This was written probably during the 10:30 time period. This -- these notes weren’t all jotted down at 11:00 A.M. This is the time I wrote out here to the side and at the completion of this interview. It started between ten and eleven.
Q. Are you trying to confuse everyone by putting the wrong time in your notes? I’m confused, officer. It says 6-3-93 at 11:00 A.M. and it looks like you asked him, “What do you know about Damien? When is the last time you seen Damien? Do you know who is responsible for these homicides?”
And Jessie replies he heard that Damien and Robert Burch did it. And then you ask him, “What were you doing on the day of the murders,” and he tells you according to your notes, “Stated he was working with Ricky Dees roofing.”
Why would you be asking someone if they are not a suspect what they were doing on the day of the homicides if in fact they weren’t a suspect?
A. The question that I answered a while ago was that pretty much everybody I talked to I asked them if they could remember. You’re talking about a month later when I’m talking to Mr. Misskelley. In my notes he thinks he worked that Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday that week -- for Ricky Dees that week, trying to get him to remember around that time frame.
Q. You’re asking everybody, not just Mr. Misskelley?
A. Yes. That is a question that we asked numerous people during this investigation.
Q. If I was at the West Memphis Police Department and I was sitting in your office and you’re asking me what I did on May five, I would feel like a suspect --
MR. FOGLEMAN: Your Honor, is there a question in there?
THE COURT: I don’t know. Go ahead.
BY MR. STIDHAM:
Q. Would you feel like a suspect if you were in a police officer’s office and he was asking you what you were doing on the date of the murders?
A. It would depend on how the questioning was given. I’m telling you at this time I was not questioning him in the line of a suspect but as that of a potential witness.
Q. I’m going to take your word.
MR. STIDHAM: Judge, Mr. Crow says he’s hungry. Could we break for lunch?
THE COURT: Yes. We’ll be in recess until 1:15.
(RECESS)
(RETURN TO OPEN COURT)
BY MR. STIDHAM:
Q. Before the lunch break, we were talking about the fact that you had went and picked up Jessie Misskelley on the morning of 6-3-93 and you said that at the detective’s meeting that morning it was discussed among the detectives, which I assume would be yourself, Officer Durham, Officer Gitchell and Officer Ridge. Was there anybody else present?
A. At that point we had a team of about 13 or 14 investigators. At that particular morning I don’t know how many were present.
Q. Tell the Court exactly what the nature of the discussion was in regard to Jessie and this cult. What made you want to go pick him up?
A. His name came up. I was advised by Inspector Gitchell that I needed to go and pick him up. It was in reference to some information that we had gathered from another source that he was a friend or whatever of Damien’s.
Q. You testified earlier that you had received information that he was in a cult with Damien?
A. Yes. That was part of that same information.
Q. What was the nature of that information? I want to be real specific about the cult.
A. That he had attended -- it is my understanding he had attended some kind of satanic ceremony with Damien.
Q. So that’s the information the officers were dealing with that morning?
A. There may be more information but that’s the information that I had at that point.
Q. So your assignment was to pick up Mr. Misskelley and question him about Damien and this cult activity?
A. That was my assignment that particular morning -- to talk to Mr. Misskelley.
Q. You went and received Mr. Misskelley Senior’s permission for the polygraph test?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. That was at Chief’s Auto Parts?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you talk to Mr. Misskelley Senior about Jessie’s constitutional rights, his rights to remain silent; in other words, the Miranda warning. Was that discussed with Jessie Senior?
A. No, sir.
Q. Why didn’t you take a rights waiver form for Jessie Senior to sign while you were doing the polygraph?
A. I did not.
Q. Why didn’t you?
A. We’d advised him of his rights.
Q. You knew he was under 18. That’s why you had to get a polygraph release --
A. That is some kind of requirement required under Arkansas polygraph -- that was something that Bill Durham said under the Arkansas polygraph laws that he had to have to give a polygraph exam.
Q. Are you aware of the fact that Arkansas law requires a juvenile’s parent to sign before they can waive their rights?
MR. FOGLEMAN: Your Honor, that is in Juvenile Court. The Arkansas Supreme Court addressed that issue and when they are tried as an adult, that did not apply.
THE COURT. That is my understanding.
MR. STIDHAM: Judge, they didn’t know what was going on at this time. He said he wasn’t a suspect. He was questioning a juvenile. He didn’t know what the prosecutor was going to file or where.
THE COURT: Go on. I hadn’t said anything about you asking the questions. You’re asking him about the status of the law, and it is contrary to what you just stated, to my knowledge.
MR. STIDHAM: May I get an answer out of him then, your Honor.
THE COURT: Sure. Do you know what the Arkansas law is on polygraph examinations of juveniles or other --
MR. STIDHAM: No, your Honor, it’s specifically with regards to waiving your Miranda warnings -- your parent must sign in order for it to be valid.
THE COURT: All right.
BY MR. STIDHAM:
Q. Were you aware of that?
A. I have in the past talked to the prosecutor’s office in regard to that subject and with the nature of this crime and him being 17 years old and me feeling that he fully understood his rights, I did not at that time obtain information from his father other than give me permission to talk to Jessie.
Q. So his Miranda warnings were not discussed with his father?
A. No, sir. The polygraph -- we told him we had talked to him and would like to give him a polygraph exam in regards to what he told us as to whether it was true or untrue, and he gave his permission for us to do that.
Q. Did the prosecuting attorney tell you that you did not have to have Jessie Senior’s signature that day -- or when was your discussion with the prosecuting attorney regarding --
A. This has been prior to this incident, over numerous other cases.
Q. Do you know when the Boyd decision came down from the Arkansas Supreme Court?
A. No, sir.
Q. Before lunch we were talking about your notes, specifically your investigative report that is dated 6-3-93 at 11:00 A.M. In your notes you indicated that you had asked Jessie where he was that day, on May 5th. Is that correct?
A. Don’t know if exactly I asked him that particular question. We had referred to the -- this had been a month later and we were getting back to that time frame, and he said during the week of the murders -- during the conversation he had brought up an incident about seeing a bicycle and I think what it was was that we were trying to get down to the day that he saw the bicycle. He saw a young boy on a bicycle, he said, and we were trying to find out what day that was on reference to the week of the homicide and he stated that he had worked that Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday.
Q. On the second page of your handwritten notes indicates that Jessie said he got off at 5:00 P.M. that Wednesday?
A. Stated that he had gotten off about 5:00 P.M. that Wednesday. That was the day he was referring to in reference to seeing what he thought was one of the little boys on a bicycle supposedly like hiding from the police or something around the 7th street overpass, maybe skipping school or something, he said.
Q. After you complete your notes here, you don’t participate in the interrogation anymore, do you?
A. After these notes, no, sir.
MR. STIDHAM: We would offer these notes as an exhibit.
MR. FOGLEMAN: No objection.
THE COURT: It may be received for purposes of this hearing.
(DEFENDANT’S EXHIBIT ONE IS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE)
BY MR. STIDHAM:
Q. On the last page in your notes it says that, “Jessie has never been to Robin Hood Hills.” Is that correct?
A. He stated to me that he had never been to Robin Hood Hills.
Q. Would it be fair to say that up to this point -- up through your entire participation in this investigation, he was trying to be very helpful to you, offering you information, telling you things?
A. We were trying to get any information he had like any other person that we brought in while we are working on this.
Q. You told John Fogleman earlier that you had reason to believe that he was being deceptive or not telling you the truth. What is it he’s not telling you the truth about?
A. He had made a statement that there was some conflict from another person. We had the information that he had been at some satanic worshipping ceremonies after the murders with Damien, and he claimed he wasn’t in any such group.
Q. So you’re saying you didn’t believe him?
A. We set him up to see whether or not everything he had told us and the information he had gaven [sic] us was the truth.
Q. That’s not answering my question. My question is did you feel that Jessie Misskelley was being dishonest with you when he told you he did not go to the devil worshipping meeting?
A. I questioned that.
Q. Was there anything else that you asked him that day that he told you about that you questioned?
A. Overall, the -- just the fact that he hadn’t been involved in any satanic cults or anything of that nature and just -- we polygraphed lots of people after taking statements from them or talking to them to see if they were truthful.
Q. So what was the purpose of the polygraph test? Why did you want him to take the polygraph test?
A. To see if he was being truthful about everything that he had said.
Q. Everything or just the part about the devil worshipping?
A. I’m not sure how he formulated -- Durham formulated his questions -- but his truthfulness in general.
Q. Did you talk to Durham about what questions to ask him?
A. Probably Detective Ridge had more talking to him about question to ask because Ridge was present during talking to Misskelley.
Q. So you didn’t talk to Durham about the polygraph then?
A. We had had a conversation and had asked some points as far as if he had ever been to Robin Hood and whether or not he had ever attended any satanic worshipping.
Q. So you helped participate in what was going to be asked?
A. Yes, I had talked to Durham, yes.
Q. How come your notes don’t reflect that you asked Jessie these questions?
A. I wrote down highlights of what -- during while I was taking notes, wrote down highlights of things that he said.
Q. Why don’t your notes reflect that you asked him these particular questions?
A. I interviewed him and these are some notes that I took down during things which I felt were important about Damien Echols, which was the main subject that I was talking to him about at that time.
Q. Wasn’t it important to you to write things in your notes that tended to show that Jessie didn’t have anything to do with this?
A. Up until --
Q. Let me rephrase that. You’re saying you just wrote down things that you thought were important?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You didn’t write down everything?
A. No, sir.
Q. You seem to have trouble recalling exactly what you asked him. Would that be a fair statement?
A. Word for word I don’t remember.
Q. Why didn’t you record it?
A. We didn’t -- he was not a suspect at that time and we were trying to find out if he had any knowledge of -- of -- of Damien or of this -- of this homicide.
Q. You do have the capability to record interrogations, do you not?
A. If it would have got to the point where he said, “I know all about it,” I would have tape recorded it.
Q. But the stuff leading up to it, that’s not important?
A. Would you ask that question again?
Q. The questions and answers and that part of the interrogation leading up to when the suspect finally breaks, that’s not important to you?
A. He was not being interrogated as a suspect at that time. Those were points that I was trying to find out in reference to another person.
Q. Were you present in the room when Officer Ridge told Jessie that he had seen him at a cult meeting with Damien?
A. If Detective Ridge told Jessie that he personally seen him at a cult meeting, I don’t remember anything like that being said.
Q. Were you present when Detective Ridge told Jessie that he knew that Damien and Jason were having sex with each other?
A. I cannot honestly say that that was something that was said in my presence.
Q. Were you present when Detective Ridge told Jessie that he knew that Jessie was involved in the homicides?
A. No. Nothing like occurred to my knowledge. If that occurred, that would have to have occurred after the polygraph.
Q. Were you still at the station house when the polygraph was being conducted?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And to make sure that I understand, you helped Detective Durham formulate the questions that were asked in the polygraph test?
A. I went to Detective Durham to ask him if he could set up the polygraph exam.
Q. So you were the officer who actually talked to him about it?
A. It was probably me, Detective Ridge and Inspector Gitchell was in and out.
Q. When did Jessie ask to go home for the first time? Was it before or after the polygraph test?
A. I wouldn’t know that. Jessie never asked to go home in my presence.
Q. Not in your presence?
A. No, sir.
Q. Where were you physically when the polygraph was being administered by Detective Durham?
A. Either in my office, which is on the other end of the building, or in Inspector Gitchell’s office which was the main area where we had everything as far as the paperwork and was kind of like the command post.
Q. The war room? That’s where you had all the evidence?
A. That’s where we had our meetings.
Q. That is right across the hall from the polygraph office, is it not?
A. There is a hallway and then another office and a polygraph office so it is in the vicinity.
Q. Were you eavesdropping on what Detective Durham was asking him during the test?
A. I don’t believe -- I -- no, sir.
Q. You weren’t standing up against the door, your ear against the wall listening?
A. No, sir, I wasn’t.
Q. So that must mean that Detective Durham was screaming at Mr. Misskelley pretty loud to enable you to run in there and physically restrain Jessie during the test?
A. That never happened.
Q. You didn’t enter the polygraph room and physically restrain Jessie?
A. That is my statement under oath that that never happened.
Q. Did you hear yelling or screaming during the polygraph test?
A. No, sir.
Q. You never entered the polygraph room at all?
A. No, sir.
Q. How about after the test was completed?
A. I don’t think I had any contact with him after the polygraph test. We talked to Detective Durham who came over but no, sir.
Q. Did you ever make an attempt on June third to verify any of the statements that Jessie was telling you about him roofing that week, working with Ricky Dees?
A. I know that Ricky Dees was interviewed in regard to that, didn’t particularly interview Ricky Dees myself.
Q. That was long after the arrest, was it not -- and the interrogation on June third?
A. I don’t know what day that that was done.
Q. You personally did not do anything to verify about where he was that day on June third?
A. I went out and interviewed witnesses in regards to some of this that --
Q. You’re not understanding my question. Mr. Misskelley’s telling you, “I was with Ricky Dees that week, and I got off work at five that day.” Did you make any attempt on June third to call Mr. Dees or verify the fact that he was working that day?
A. No, sir.
Q. Wouldn’t that have been easier to do than do the polygraph test?
A. Repeat that question.
Q. You said that you wanted to check and make sure he wasn’t telling you any lies about what he told you. Wouldn’t it have been easier to make a couple of phone calls and ask where he was that day than to conduct a polygraph test?
A. It was checked on.
Q. That day?
A. It was not checked on that day.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. FOGLEMAN:
Q. You had already had a witness who said that Damien and
(PAGE 58 IS MISSING)
that came up,” and Mike Allen said there may have been but he didn’t remember it. My question was whether he brought it up.
MR. STIDHAM: I thought I asked him the same question --
THE COURT: I don’t know whether you did or not --
MR. STIDHAM: -- I want to know what the difference was before lunch and after lunch.
THE COURT: You can ask him that if you want. I don’t know what you asked the first time.
BY MR. STIDHAM:
Q. Your testimony under your oath is that you did not bring up the thirty thousand dollar reward?
A. I did not bring a subject of that nature up.
Q. It seems to me that you’re being at bit evasive. Is it possible that someone else might have brought it up with Jessie present that day?
A. During that time period -- you brought the subject up, did Mr. McNeese -- was there a conversation made --
Q. I said nothing about Mr. McNeese.
A. -- during your first talking to me about that, I do not know if that was discussed. I did not bring a topic of that nature up.
Q. You cannot say under your oath it was never discussed that day?
A. If someone would have asked me, I probably would have told them what the reward was. You mentioned something about a truck. That doesn’t ring a bell with me.
