WE’RE BACK ON THE RECORD. IT’S 10:57 A.M. THIS IS JOHN FOGLEMAN, DEPUTY PROSECUTING ATTORNEY FOR CRITTENDEN COUNTY. PRESENT IS CONSTANCE MICHELLE ECHOLS, HER MOTHER, PAMELA HUTCHISON, HER APPOINTED ATTORNEY, GERALD COLEMAN, MYSELF AND INSPECTOR GITCHELL OF THE WEST MEMPHIS POLICE DEPARTMENT. ALRIGHT, DO YOU GO BY CONSTANCE, MICHELLE, OR...
MICHELLE - MICHELLE.
FOGLEMAN - IF YOU’D RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND, MICHELLE, DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT YOU’LL TELL THE TRUTH THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH IN THE STATEMENT YOU’RE ABOUT TO GIVE PURSUANT TO THIS PROSECUTING ATTORNEY SUBPOENA?
MICHELLE - YES.
FOGLEMAN - STATE YOUR NAME PLEASE.
MICHELLE - CONSTANCE MICHELLE ECHOLS.
MICHELLE - 2706 BALFOUR, UH, SOUTHGROVE.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY, AND HOW OLD ARE YOU?
MICHELLE - 16.
FOGLEMAN - ALRIGHT, ARE YOU NERVOUS? YOU DON’T HAVE TO BE . UM, HOW FAR DID YOU GO IN SCHOOL?
MICHELLE - I MADE IT TO THE 9TH GRADE.
FOGLEMAN - AND WHEN DID YOU LAST ATTEND SCHOOL?
MICHELLE - THE LAST SCHOOL YEAR.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY, LAST MAY, WHENEVER. OKAY. AND I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU’RE GETTING READY TO TRY FOR YOU GED.
MICHELLE - UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN - ALRIGHT. WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO DO THAT?
MICHELLE - NEXT WEEK I’M GOING TO ENROLL.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. DO THEY HAVE A CLASS OR SOMETHING?
MICHELLE - UH HUH. YOU TAKE A CLASS 6 WEEKS FOR 2 DAYS A WEEK, DAYS OR NIGHTS.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY.
MICHELLE - AND I WAS GOING TO TAKE IT AT NIGHT.
001806
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. AND DO YOU WORK?
MICHELLE - UM, I START MONDAY.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY, WHERE?
MICHELLE - UM, I’M WORKING WITH RON.
FOGLEMAN - WITH WHO?
MICHELLE - RON.
FOGLEMAN - RON?
MICHELLE - LAX.
FOGLEMAN - WHEN YOU SAY YOU’RE WORKING WITH HIM, WHAT DO YOU MEAN?
MICHELLE - UM, I’M JUST GOING TO FILE.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. LIKE WORK IN HIS OFFICE OR SOMETHING?
MICHELLE - UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. HAS HE TOLD YOU HOW LONG YOU’LL BE WORKING. OR IS THIS....
MICHELLE - NO, HE JUST TOLD ME TO BE THERE AT 9 O’CLOCK MONDAY.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. AND IS THIS A TEMPORARY JOB?
MICHELLE - UH HUH. HE SAID FOR APPROXIMATELY 2 WEEKS.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. UM, WHAT DO YOU WANT TO BE?
MICHELLE - WELL, I ALWAYS WANTED TO BE A LAWYER, BUT SO FAR I SEE THAT I CAN’T DO THAT.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. WHY NOT?
MICHELLE - BECAUSE WHEN I CAME BACK HERE, I HAD TROUBLE GETTING INTO SCHOOL. THE SCHOOL DID NOT WANT ME IN. AND NOW SINCE ALL THIS IS HAPPENING, I’M NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO GO TO SCHOOL WITH PEOPLE LEAVING ME ALONE.
FOGLEMAN - UH HUH.
MICHELLE - SO I JUST HAVE TO GO GET MY GED AND DO THE BEST THAT I CAN DO.
FOGLEMAN - UH HUH. OKAY. WELL, IF YOU FEEL LIKE THAT’S OUT
001807
OF THE QUESTION, WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO NOW?
MICHELLE - I WANT TO BE A SECRETARY.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. ALRIGHT, UM, SO ARE YOU 16?
MICHELLE - UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. WHERE ALL HAVE YOU LIVED IN YOUR LIFE? WHAT STATES?
MICHELLE - UM, THE ONLY PLACES I CAN REMEMBER, I KNOW I LIVED IN TEXAS AND LOUISIANA AND MISSISSIPPI AND HERE. AND THAT’S ALL.
FOGLEMAN - AND HOW ABOUT OREGON?
MICHELLE - WELL YES, BUT WE JUST WENT BACK FROM THERE.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. ANYWHERE ELSE YOU CAN THINK OF?
MICHELLE - NO.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. BEFORE OREGON, WHERE DID YOU LIVE?
MICHELLE - LAKESHORE.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY, AND BEFORE THAT, WHERE DID YOU LIVE?
MICHELLE - UM, IN A WHITE HOUSE ON, OVER THERE BY RIVER TRACE.
FOGLEMAN - MARION LAKE ROAD.
MICHELLE - UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN - UH HUH. AND BEFORE THAT, WHERE DID YOU LIVE?
MICHELLE - UM, ON BOND.
FOGLEMAN - IN WEST MEMPHIS?
MICHELLE - UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN - BEFORE THAT?
MICHELLE - AT MARION APARTMENTS.
FOGLEMAN - AND BEFORE THAT?
MICHELLE - UM, ON GOODWIN.
FOGLEMAN - IN WEST MEMPHIS?
MICHELLE - UH HUH.
001808
FOGLEMAN - OKAY, AND BEFORE THAT.
MICHELLE - I DON’T KNOW.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. AFTER, ALRIGHT, YOU MOVED TO OREGON. BEFORE THAT YOU LIVED IN THIS AREA AWHILE . . . .
MICHELLE - UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN - AND WHAT WAS THE OTHER PLACE THAT YOU MOVED FROM TO GET TO CRITTENDEN COUNTY. ALRIGHT, YOU LIVED SOMEWHERE ELSE. AND YOU MOVED TO CRITTENDEN COUNTY BEFORE YOU MOVED TO OREGON. YOU MOVED TO MARION OR WEST MEMPHIS. I KNOW THIS ISN’T A VERY GOOD QUESTION, IT’S KIND OF CONFUSING. ALRIGHT, LIKE YOU SAID YOU LIVED IN TEXAS SOME, AND LOUISIANA. WHERE DID YOU MOVE FROM TO GET TO ARKANSAS?
MICHELLE - WHERE DID I MOVE FROM TO GET TO ARKANSAS?
FOGLEMAN - UH HUH. DO YOU KNOW?
MICHELLE - UM, I DON’T KNOW.
FOGLEMAN - HOW OLD WERE YOU WHEN YOU MOVED TO ARKANSAS. DO YOU KNOW THAT?
MICHELLE - UH, NO.
FOGLEMAN - HOW LONG HAVE YOU LIVED IN ARKANSAS?
MICHELLE - WELL, I’VE LIVED HERE ON AND OFF . . .
FOGLEMAN - EXCEPT FOR OREGON.
MICHELLE - EXCEPT FOR OREGON, I WOULD SAY 4 YEARS.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY, BUT YOU DON’T REMEMBER WHERE YOU, LIKE WHEN YOU WERE 10 OR 12 WHERE YOU LIVED, WHERE YOU MOVED FROM.
MICHELLE - WHEN I WAS 10 I LIVED ON MARION LAKE ROAD IN THAT HOUSE.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. WELL THAT WOULD BE 6 YEARS AGO THAT YOU WERE LIVING HERE.
MICHELLE - UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY, SO WE’VE GOT AT LEAST 6 YEARS THAT YOU’VE LIVED IN ARKANSAS. UH, BUT, I MEAN WHEN YOU WERE 8, DO YOU KNOW WHERE YOU LIVED?
MICHELLE - UH, NO.
001809
FOGLEMAN - DO YOU KNOW IF YOU LIVED IN ARKANSAS OR IF YOU LIVED SOMEWHERE ELSE?
MICHELLE - NO I MOVED FROM ARKANSAS.
FOGLEMAN - WHEN YOU WERE IN . . . . WHERE DID YOU START TO SCHOOL. LET’S TRY IT THAT WAY.
MICHELLE - UH, KINDERGARTEN I STARTED IN WEST MEMPHIS.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. HAVE YOU GONE TO SCHOOL BESIDES YOUR OREGON TRIP, HAVE YOU GONE TO SCHOOL ANYWHERE OTHER THAN IN ARKANSAS?
MICHELLE - UM, I WENT TO SCHOOL, I THINK IT WAS TEXAS.
FOGLEMAN - ALRIGHT WHAT GRADE, DO YOU REMEMBER?
MICHELLE - JR. HIGH.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. ANY OTHER GRADES IN ANY OTHER STATES THAT YOU CAN REMEMBER?
MICHELLE - NOT OTHER THAN OREGON.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. AND DID YOU GO TO SCHOOL SOME IN OREGON?
MICHELLE - UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN - WHAT KIND OF GRADES DID YOU MAKE WHEN YOU WERE IN SCHOOL?
MICHELLE - UM, WELL, THE LAST TIME I WAS IN SCHOOL. UH, THE FIRST FALL I WENT TO IN OREGON, I MADE C’S. B’S, C’S AND D’S. UH, BUT AT THE NEXT SCHOOL I WENT TO THERE, I MADE JUST ABOUT ALL D’S.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. HOW ABOUT YOUR LAST SEMESTER AT MARION?
MICHELLE - THE LAST SEMESTER AT MARION, UM, WHEN I GOT MY TRANSCRIPTS, I HAD B’S AND I HAD 1 D AND THEN I HAD SOME INCOMPLETES.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. ALRIGHT, NOW I WANT TO . . . I WANT YOU TO THINK BACK TO ABOUT MAY THE 5TH OF ‘93. OD YOU REMEMBER WHERE YOU WERE THAT DAY?
MICHELLE - MAY THE 5TH. UM, I WAS AT HOME.
FOGLEMAN - DO YOU KNOW WHAT DAY OF THE WEEK THAT WAS?
MICHELLE - I THINK IT WAS A WEDNESDAY I THINK.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. WHAT DID YOU DO THAT DAY?
001810
MICHELLE - WELL, I STAYED AT HOME UNTIL APPROXIMATELY 3:30 OR 3:45 AND THEN UM, ME AND MY MOM AND MY DAD WENT TO GET MY BROTHER FROM THE LAUNDRYMAT.
FOGLEMAN - WHICH LAUNDRYMAT WAS THAT?
MICHELLE - UM, IT WAS THE ONE, I DON’T KNOW THE NAME OF IT. BUT IT’S ACROSS FROM PIZZA HUT.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. AND HOW DID YA’LL, DID YA’LL GO STRAIGHT THERE OR DID YA’LL STOP ANYWHERE ON THE WAY?
MICHELLE - WE WENT STRAIGHT THERE TO THE LAUNDRYMAT.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY, AND WHO WAS THERE WHEN YOU GOT THERE?
MICHELLE - DAMION AND DOMINI.
FOGLEMAN - ALRIGHT, NOBODY ELSE.
MICHELLE - NOT AT THE LAUNDRYMAT.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. DID YOU SEE ANYBODY ELSE ON THE STREET?
MICHELLE - UM, NO, NO.
FOGLEMAN - I MEAN THAT YOU KNEW.
MICHELLE - NO.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. ALRIGHT, AND AFTER YOU LEFT THE LAUNDRYMAT WHERE DID YOU GO?
MICHELLE - WE TOOK DOMINI HOME.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. AND THEN WHAT DID YOU DO?
MICHELLE - WE WENT TO THE PHARMACY TO PICK UP DAMION’S MEDICINE.
FOGLEMAN - ALRIGHT, LET ME ASK YOU THIS. WHEN YOU TOOK DOMINI HOME, DID YOU TAKE HER TO HER TRAILER?
MICHELLE - UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN - ALRIGHT, DID YOU SEE ANYBODY ON THE STREET THERE THAT YOU KNEW WHEN YOU TOOK HER TO HER TRAILER?
MICHELLE - NO, I DON’T REALLY KNOW ANYBODY IN LAKESHORE.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. DO YOU KNOW JASON BALDWIN?
MICHELLE - WELL, I KNOW HIM, YOU KNOW. BUT HE’S BASICALLY THE
001811
ONLY ONE FROM LAKESHORE THAT I DO KNOW.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. HOW ABOUT L.G. HOLLINGSWROTH?
MICHELLE - UM, I DON’T KNOW HIM. I’VE MET HIM A FEW TIMES. BUT I DON’T REALLY KNOW HIM.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY, HE’S NOT RELATED TO YOU?
MICHELLE - NO.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. IS HE, DO YOU KNOW IF HE’S RELATED TO DOMINI?
MICHELLE - UM, I’M NOT SURE IF HE’S RELATED TO HER OR NOT. I KNOW HIS COUSIN IS RELATED TO HER.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY.
MICHELLE - BUT I DON’T KNOW ABOUT HIM.
FOGLEMAN - ALRIGHT, SO YOU DIDN’T SEE ANYBODY. AND YOU DON’T KNOW VERY MANY PEOPLE IN LAKESHORE.
MICHELLE - RIGHT.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. UH, WHEN YOU DROPPED HER OFF, WAS THERE ANYBODY ELSE IN THE YARD? DID SHE GO IN THE HOUSE, OR DID DAMION GET OUT OF THE CAR AND HAVE ANY CONVERSATION WITH HER BEFORE SHE WENT IN? OR WHAT HAPPENED?
MICHELLE - UM, HE ALWAYS GOT OUT OF THE CAR TO KISS HER BYE. AND HE KISSED HER AND THEN SHE WENT IN THE HOUSE, AND WE LEFT.
FOGLEMAN - THEY DIDN’T HAVE ANY ARGUMENT OR ANYTHING?
MICHELLE - NOT WHEN WE DROPPED HER OFF.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. ALRIGHT, AND THIS WAS ABOUT WHAT TIME.
MICHELLE - UM, I WOULD SAY AROUND 4 OR A LITTLE AFTER.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY, AND THEN YOU WENT WHERE?
MICHELLE - UM, AFTER WE DROPPED HER OFF WE ENT TO THE PHARMACY TO PICK UP HIS MEDICINE.
FOGLEMAN - AND WHAT PHARMACY WAS THAT?
MICHELLE - MARION DISCOUNT PHARMACY.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY, AND DID YOU GET HIS MEDICINE?
001812
MICHELLE - UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY, WHO WENT IN?
MICHELLE - MY MOM.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY, ANYBODY ELSE?
MICHELLE - UM, I’M NOT SURE IF MY DAD DID OR NOT.
FOGLEMAN - YOU DON’T REMEMBER.
MICHELLE - NO, I DON’T.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. AND UH, AFTER YOU LEFT THERE, WHAT DID YOU DO?
MICHELLE - WE WENT HOME.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY, HOW DID YOU GET HOME? WHICH ROUTE?
MICHELLE - UM, WE WENT THROUGH, DOWN BY LAKESHORE AND BY WHERE WAL-MART AND ALL THAT IS.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. ALRIGHT, DID YOU GO ON THE SERVICE ROAD OR ON THE INTERSTATE OR ON HIGHWAY 77, OR . . . .
MICHELLE - I DON’T REALLY REMEMBER WHAT ROUTE WE TOOK TO GET HOME. I MEAN, I DON’T REMEMBER IF WE WENT UH, ON THE SERVICE ROAD OR NOT.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY, YOU DON’T REMEMBER HOW YOU GOT THERE. OKAY. ALRIGHT. DID YOU GO STRAIGHT HOME?
MICHELLE - UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN - ALRIGHT, DO YOU KNOW ABOUT WHAT TIME YOU GOT HOME?
MICHELLE - UM, NO, NO NOT EXACTLY.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. DO YOU KNOW APPROXIMATELY?
MICHELLE - I’D SAY AROUND 5.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. AND THEN WHEN YOU GOT HOME, WHAT DID YOU DO?
MICHELLE - UM, I WATCHED T.V.
FOGLEMAN - WHAT DID YOU WATCH.
MICHELLE - I DON’T KNOW WHAT PROGRAMS I WATCHED.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. UH, WHAT DID, WHAT DID ANYBODY ELSE DO?
001813
MICHELLE - UM, WELL, MY GRANDMA’S ALWAYS IN HER BEDROOM WATCHING T.V., AND MY MOM AND DAD MOST OF THE TIME, THEY JUST SIT AT THE TABLE AND TALK. AND DAMION WAS ON THE PHONE.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. WHEN YOU FIRST GOT HOME?
MICHELLE - UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY, DO YOU KNOW WHO HE WAS TALKING TO?
MICHELLE - WELL, HE TALKED TO JENNIFER AT THAT TIME.
FOGLEMAN - JENNIFER?
MICHELLE - I DO NOT KNOW HER LAST NAME.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. HAS DAMION TOLD YOU HER LAST NAME?
MICHELLE - NO, HE NEVER HAS.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. HOW LONG DID HE TALK TO HER?
MICHELLE - UM, I WOULD SAY ABOUT AN HOUR.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED.
MICHELLE - UM, WELL AFTER HE GOT OFF THE PHONE WITH HER, UM, WE LEFT HOME AROUND, I WOULD SAY AROUND 20 MINUTES TO 7 AND WENT OVER TO A FRIEND’S HOUSE.
FOGLEMAN - DID YOU EAT ANY SUPPER?
MICHELLE - UH, YEAH, BUT I DON’T KNOW WHAT WE ATE.
FOGLEMAN - DO YOU KNOW WHEN YOU ATE IT? DID YOU EAT BEFORE OR AFTER YOU WENT TO THE FRIEND’S HOUSE?
MICHELLE - I’M NOT SURE.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. YOU DON’T REMEMBER THAT?
MICHELLE - NO.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. ALRIGHT, UM, YOU WENT TO THE FRIEND’S HOUSE. WHO WENT TO THE FRIEND’S HOUSE?
MICHELLE - ME, MY MOM AND DAD AND DAMION.
FOGLEMAN - ALRIGHT. AND WHO WENT IN?
MICHELLE - WE ALL DID.
FOGLEMAN - ALL 4 OF YOU?
001814
MICHELLE - UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY, AND WHO WAS THERE?
MICHELLE - UH, THE DAUGHTER, JENNIFER.
FOGLEMAN - ALRIGHT. UM, WHEN SHE ANSWERED THE DOOR, WHAT WAS SAID?
MICHELLE - UH, SHE DIDN’T. WE KNOCKED AND SHE SAID, COME IN. SO WE WENT IN , AND SHE SAID THAT HER PARENTS WEREN’T THERE THAT THEY WENT TO SPLASH. SO MOM LEFT HER MOM A NOTE AND STUCK IT IN THE SIDE OF HER PURSE.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. HOW LONG DID YA’LL STAY?
MICHELLE - UM, ABOUT 30 MINUTES.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. WHAT DID YA’LL DO DURING THAT 30 MINUTES?
MICHELLE - WE, JENNIFER WAS WORKING ON A POSTER, SO I WAS SITTING THERE WATCHING 90210. AND MOM AND DAD AND DAMION WAS JUST SITTING THERE. THEY WERE WATCHING T.V., BUT...
FOGLEMAN - BUT WHAT?
MICHELLE - I MEAN, IT WAS NOT LIKE . . . THEY DON’T USUALLY WATCH THAT, THEY WERE WAITING ON RANDY AND SUSAN TO GET HOME.
FOGLEMAN - THEY WERE WAITING ON RANDY AND SUSAN TO GET HOME?
MICHELLE - UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY, WERE THEY EXPECTED JUST ANY MINUTE?
MICHELLE - UM, JENNIFER SAID SHE DIDN’T KNOW WHEN THEY WOULD BE BACK. THEY HAD LEFT EARLIER THAT DAY, SO...
FOGLEMAN - OKAY.
MICHELLE - SO THEY THOUGHT MAYBE THAT.....
FOGLEMAN - SO YA’LL WAITED ABOUT 30 MINUTES TO SEE WHETHER OR NOT THEY CAME HOME.
MICHELLE - UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. AND UH, HOW DID IT COME UP, YA’LL DECIDING TO LEAVE? WHAT WAS SAID?
MICHELLE - UM . . . .MOM JUST WROTE THAT NOTE AND TOLD JENNIFER TO TELL HER MOM THAT WE STOPPED BY AND TO GIVE HER THE NOTE.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. ALRIGHT. AND THEN WHERE DID YOU GO?
001815
MICHELLE - HOME.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY, DID YOU SEE ANYBODY IN THE YARD THERE, WHEN YA’LL, ANY OTHER KIDS, TEENAGERS?
MICHELLE - IN WHO’S YARD?
FOGLEMAN - THE SANDERS.
MICHELLE - NO, I DIDN’T SEE THEM.
FOGLEMAN - UH, AND THEN, TELL ME AGAIN WHERE YOU WENT.
MICHELLE - EXCUSE ME.
FOGLEMAN - WHERE DID YOU GO AFTER YOU LEFT THE SANDERS?
MICHELLE - HOME.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. DID YOU STRAIGHT HOME?
MICHELLE - THE BEST I CAN REMEMBER.
FOGLEMAN - YOU DON’T RECALL?
MICHELLE - I DON’T RECALL STOPPING AT ALL.
FOGLEMAN - AND WHEN YOU GOT HOME, DO YOU KNOW ABOUT WHAT TIME IT WAS?
MICHELLE - UM, I WOULD SAY AROUND 8.
FOGLEMAN - AND UH, WHAT DID YOU DO AFTER YOU GOT THERE?
MICHELLE - UM, I WATCHED MELROSE PLACE, AND UM, MOM AND DAD, I DON’T REMEMBER WHAT THEY DID, BUT I KNOW, DAMION WAS ON THE PHONE. AND I REMEMBER THAT BECAUSE I ALWAYS GRIPED AT HIM BECAUSE I WANTED TO USE THE PHONE. AND HE WAS ON THE PHONE UNTIL AROUND 10:30 THAT NIGHT.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. DO YOU KNOW WHO HE TALKED TO?
MICHELLE - UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN - WHO?
MICHELLE - HE TALKED TO HOLLY AND HE TALKED TO JENNIFER.
FOGLEMAN - HE TALKED TO JENNIFER AGAIN.
MICHELLE - UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN - SO HE TALKED TO HER TWICE THAT NIGHT.
001816
MICHELLE - RIGHT.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. WHO’S HOLLY?
MICHELLE - HOLLY IS THIS, I’VE NEVER SEEN JENNIFER OR HOLLY. THEY’RE JUST GIRLS THAT HE MET AT THE SKATING RINK.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. AND UH, YOU KNOW HOLLY’S LAST NAME?
MICHELLE - HOLLY GEORGE.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. DO YOU KNOW WHERE SHE LIVES?
MICHELLE - I KNOW SHE LIVES IN BARTLETT.
FOGLEMAN - HAS DAMION EVER BEEN OVER TO HER HOUSE TO SEE HER?
MICHELLE - NO.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. UM, HOW LONG DID HE TALK TO HOLLY”?
MICHELLE - I’S SAY APPROXIMATELY 30 MINUTES.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. WHO DID HE TALK TO AFTER HE TALKED TO HOLLY?
MICHELLE - JENNIFER.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. UM, DO YOU KNOW HO LONG HE TALKED TO JENNIFER?
MICHELLE - UH, NO, NOT EXACTLY, I DON’T.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. AFTER HE TALKED TO JENNIFER, WHO DID HE TALK TO?
MICHELLE - JASON.
FOGLEMAN - TO WHO?
MICHELLE - JASON.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. WHAT TIME WAS IT WHEN HE TALKED TO JASON?
MICHELLE - UM, AROUND 9:30, 10:00. SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
FOGLEMAN - WHO DID HE TALK TO AFTER JASON?
MICHELLE - DOMINI.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. HOW LONG DID HE TALK TO HER?
MICHELLE - AROUND 20 MINUTES. THEY HAD AN ARGUMENT THAT NIGHT.
001817
FOGLEMAN - DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE ARGUMENT WAS ABOUT?
MICHELLE - NO, HE WAS IN THE BEDROOM. IN MY MOM AND DAD’S BEDROOM, AND SO.....
FOGLEMAN - HOW DO YOU KNOW HE HAD AN ARGUMENT?
MICHELLE - BECAUSE MOM WENT BACK THERE AND UM, HE GOT KIND OF LOUD AND WE COULDN’T UNDERSTAND WHAT HE WAS SAYING. AND MAMA WENT BACK THERE AND SHE MADE HIM GET OFF THE PHONE BECAUSE HE WAS ARGUING WITH HER. AND SHE DIDN’T WANT HIM ARGUING SO SHE MADE HIM GET OFF THE PHONE.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY, HE NEVER DID TELL YOU WHAT HE WAS ARGUING ABOUT.
MICHELLE - HE NEVER TALKED TO ME ABOUT THINGS LIKE THAT.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR BROTHER?
MICHELLE - UM, WELL WE’RE NOT REALLY THAT CLOSE. UH, WE HAVEN’T BEEN IN A WHILE. UM, I KNOW THAT WE BOTH LOVE EACH OTHER, WE JUST, THERE’S CERTAIN THINGS WE CAN’T TALK TO EACH OTHER ABOUT. AND THERE’S SOME THINGS WE DO.
FOGLEMAN - HOW LONG HAS HE BEEN INVOLVED IN THIS WICCA STUFF?
MICHELLE - UM, I DON’T ACTUALLY KNOW.
FOGLEMAN - YOU DON’T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THAT?
MICHELLE - WELL I KNOW THAT INSTANCE WITH (INAUDIBLE) BUT I DON’T KNOW WHEN HE STARTED IT.
FOGLEMAN - BUT HE NEVER DID TALK TO YOU ABOUT ANY OF THIS STUFF.
MICHELLE - NO, THE ONLY THING, I’VE EVER SEEN A BOOK ONE TIME, BUT I DIDN’T READ IT.
FOGLEMAN - WHERE WAS THE BOOK?
MICHELLE - IT WAS IN HIS ROM.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. WAS IT A HARD BACK? PAPER BACK?
MICHELLE - PAPERBACK.
FOGLEMAN - ABOUT WHEN DID YOU SEE THAT BOOK?
MICHELLE - UM. IT WAS WHEN WE LIVED IN OREGON.
001818
FOGLEMAN - IN OREGON? OKAY. DO YOU REMEMBER THE NAME OF THE BOOK?
MICHELLE - UM, NO.
FOGLEMAN - WHAT KIND OF THINGS DID DAMION LIKE TO READ?
MICHELLE - UM, HE LIKES TO READ STEPHEN KIN AND (INAUDIBLE)
FOGLEMAN - WHO WAS THE LAST PERSON?
MICHELLE - DEAN R. KOOTS.
FOGLEMAN - DEAN R. KOOTS.
MICHELLE - UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN - IS THAT WITH A K?
MICHELLE - UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. CAN YOU THINK OF ANYTHING ELSE. OKAY THAT WILL CONCLUDE THE INTERVIEW OF MICHELLE ECHOLS. IT IS NOW 11:18 A.M. OKAY. BACK ON THE RECORD. I THOUGHT OF A COUPLE OF OTHER QUESTIONS. IT’S 11:18 A.M. UM, MICHELLE WHAT DID YOU DO THE DAY BEFORE MAY THE 5TH?
MICHELLE - UM, THE DAY BEFORE, WE DO BASICALLY, WE DID BASICALLY EVERYTHING THE SAME DAY. HE WOULD, HE GOT UP AND HE TOOK A SHOWER, AND UH, THEN WE SAT AROUND THE HOUSE TILL APPROXIMATELY 1 AND THEN WE TOOK HIM OUT TO DOMINI’S.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. AND THAT WAS ON MAY THE 4TH?
MICHELLE - UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN - AND WHAT TIME DID YOU TAKE HIM TO DOMINI’S?
MICHELLE - AROUND 1.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY, AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED? WHEN DID YOU SEE HIM AGAIN.
MICHELLE - AROUND 4 MAY...POSSIBLY 5.
FOGLEMAN - ALRIGHT. WHERE WERE YOU WHEN YOU SAW HIM?
MICHELLE - WE WENT TO PICK HIM UP.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY, AND LET’S SEE. ALRIGHT AND WHO ALL WENT TO TAKE HIM TO DOMINI’S?
MICHELLE - ME AND MY MOM.
001819
FOGLEMAN - OKAY.
GITCHELL - DID YOU GO TO SCHOOL?
MICHELLE - NO.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. NOW, AND THEN YOU PICKED HIM UP ABOUT 4 OR 5
MICHELLE - UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN - ALRIGHT, AND YOU WERE ALSO, THE NEXT DAY, YOU WERE WITH YOUR MOTHER WHEN YOU, YA’LL TOOK HIM TO DOMINI’S THAT DAY TOO. OKAY. AND UH, WHERE DID YOU PICK HIM UP THAT DAY?
MICHELLE - ON THE 4TH WE PICKED HIM UP FROM DOMINI’S.
FOGLEMAN - FROM DOMINI’S. AND IT WAS ABOUT WHAT TIME?
MICHELLE - UM, 4, POSSIBLE 5.
FOGLEMAN - ALRIGHT. DO YOU KNOW, WAS ANYBODY ELSE THERE THAT YOU SAY WHEN YOU PICKED HIM UP?
MICHELLE - NOT THAT I CAN REMEMBER.
FOGLEMAN - ALRIGHT. DID YOU SEE JASON ON THE 4TH?
MICHELLE - UM, I DON’T REMEMBER IF I DID OR NOT.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. DID SOMEBODY WITH YOU SEE HIM?
MICHELLE - UH, NOT, DAMION HAD SEEN HIM THAT DAY.
FOGLEMAN - ANYBODY ELSE?
MICHELLE - I DON’T REMEMBER. AND SOME GUY NAMED KEN, I DON’T KNOW HIS LAST NAME.
FOGLEMAN - YOU KNOW WHERE HE LIVES?
MICHELLE - NO, UH, SINCE ALL THIS CAME DOWN, HE DISAPPEARED. NOBODY KNOWS WHERE HE’S AT.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. I MEAN, YA’LL HAVEN’T BEEN ABLE TO FIND HIM. HAVE YA’LL TRIED?
MICHELLE - I . . . HE WAS IN MY FIRST PERIOD CLASS LAST YEAR, AND UM, I WAS TALKING TO HIM AND STUFF, AND I KNEW SOME PEOPLE THAT KNOW HIM. BUT, HE HASN’T BEEN GOING TO SCHOOL OR
001820
ANYTHING.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. WHAT TEACHER WAS THE FIRST PERIOD CLASS?
MICHELLE - I DON’T REMEMBER HER NAME, BUT THE ONLY THING I KNOW IS IT WAS ENGLISH.
FOGLEMAN - WHICH TEACHER? ENGLISH. AND YOU DON’T REMEMBER WHAT HER NAME WAS?
MICHELLE - NO.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. AFTER YOU PICKED HIM UP ABOUT 4 OR 5, THEN WHAT DID YOU DO? THIS IS ON THE 4TH NOW.
MICHELLE - I THINK WE WENT HOME.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. AND WHAT DID YA’LL DO WHEN YOU GOT HOME?
MICHELLE - UM, BASICALLY THE ROUTINE THING. WE WATCHED T.V., ATE AND ME AND HIM TALKED ON THE PHONE.
FOGLEMAN - HE DIDN’T GO ANYWHERE THAT NIGHT?
MICHELLE - NOT THAT I CAN REMEMBER.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. ALRIGHT. HOW BOUT ON THURSDAY, THE 6TH?
MICHELLE - THE DAY AF...UH...
FOGLEMAN - THE DAY AFTER THE 5TH. WEDNESDAY. THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN THURSDAY. WHAT DID YOU DO THAT DAY.
MICHELLE - UM, BASICALLY THE SAME THING. WE HAVE THE SAME ROUTING ABOUT EVERY DAY.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. YOU WENT WHERE?
MICHELLE - WE TOOK HIM OUT TO DOMINI’S.
FOGLEMAN - DID YOU EVER TAKE HIM TO JASON’S?
MICHELLE - UH YEAH. WELL MOST OF THE TIME WE WOULD DROP HIM OFF AT DOMINI’S AND HE WOULD WALK TO JASON’S.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. JASON JUST LIVES AROUND THE CORNER?
MICHELLE - UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN - ALRIGHT, AND ON THE DAY, ON THURSDAY THE 6TH, YOU DID THE SAME THING?
MICHELLE - UH HUH.
001821
FOGLEMAN - YOU TOOK HIM TO DOMINI’S. DO YOU KNOW ABOUT WHAT TIME YA’LL WENT THAT DAY?
MICHELLE - NO I DON’T.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. DID YOU GO TO THE DOCTOR ON THE 4TH?
MICHELLE - ON THE 4TH, UM, ...
FOGLEMAN - TUESDAY.
MICHELLE - UM, NOT THAT I CAN REMEMBER.
FOGELMAN - OKAY. I’M TALKING ABOUT DAMON.
001822
ALRIGHT, WE’RE BACK ON THE RECORD. WE CHANGED TAPES. IT’S 11:24 A.M., SEPTEMBER 10, 1993. THIS IS A CONTINUATION OF THE INTERVIEW OF MICHELLE ECHOLS. PRESENT IS MYSELF, DEPUTY PROSECUTING ATTORNEY, MICHELLE ECHOLS, HER MOTHER, PAM HUTCHINGSON, HER COURT APPOINTED ATTORNEY, GERALD COLEMAN AND INSP. GITCHELL OF THE WEST MEMPHIS POLICE DEPARTMENT. NOW, I BELIEVE YOU INDICATED ON THE 6TH THAT YOU TOOK HIM AGAIN. DID THE SAME PEOPLE GO? YOU AND YOUR MOTHER?
MICHELLE - UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN - DID YOU FATHER GO?
MICHELLE - UH, NO.
FOGLEMAN - PARDON?
MICHELLE - NO.
FOGLEMAN - DID HE GO ON THE 5TH?
MICHELLE - HE WENT TO THE DOCTOR ON THE 5TH.
FOGLEMAN - WHO WENT TO THE DOCTOR?
MICHELLE - DAMION DID.
FOGLEMAN - ALRIGHT, I’M TALKING ABOUT YOUR FATHER. DID HE GO WITH YOU WHEN YOU TOOK DAMION TO DOMINI’S ON THE 5TH?
MICHELLE - UM . . . . I DON’T REMEMBER.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. HOW ABOUT ON THE 4TH?
MICHELLE - UH...YEAH.
FOGLEMAN - YOU NEED TO SPEAK UP A LITTLE BIT SO THE RECORDER CAN PICK IT UP.
MICHELLE - YES. I THINK SO.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT YOU DID ON THAT FRIDAY, WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN THE 7TH?
MICHELLE - UM... I WENT TO MARKED TREE.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY.
MICHELLE - I STAYED ALMOST EVERY WEEKEND THERE.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. WHO LIVES IN MARKED TREE?
MICHELLE - I VISIT MY BOYFRIEND THERE AND HIS SISTER AND HIS MOTHER.
001823
FOGLEMAN - OKAY YOU WENT AND STAYED WITH THEM? WHAT ARE THEIR NAMES?
MICHELLE - MY BOYFRIEND’S NAME IS MIKE ELLENBURG, AND HIS SISTER IS CARMELLA ELLENBURG AND HIS MOTHER ANITA HENDRIX AND HER HUSBAND JOHN HENDRIX.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY, AND YOU WENT THERE FRIDAY. WHAT TIME OF THE DAY ON FRIDAY DID YOU GO THERE?
MICHELLE - UM... PROBABLY AROUND 3, BUT I’M NOT FOR SURE ABOUT THE TIME.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. 3 IN THE AFTERNOON?
MICHELLE - UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN - WHAT DID YOU DO BEFORE THAT?
MICHELLE - UM, WE WENT TO MEMPHIS TO A PAWN SHOP.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY, WHAT DID YOU DO AT PAWN SHOP?
MICHELLE - WE WERE LOOKING FOR A MICROWAVE.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. DID YOU FIND ONE?
MICHELLE - UM, NO.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. AND THAT WAS THE MORNING OR AFTERNOON.
MICHELLE - IT WAS PROBABLY AROUND 12.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. AND THEN WHEN YOU...DID YOU DOD ANYTHING ELSE? DID YOU GO ANYWHERE ELSE BESIDES THE PAWN SHOP?
MICHELLE - UH, WE WENT TO KENTUCKY FRIED CHICKEN.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. WHICH ONE?
MICHELLE - ONE IN MEMPHIS. THAT’S ALL I KNOW.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. WHEN DID YOU RETURN.
MICHELLE - UM, WE RETURNED AROUND 2:30, 2:45.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY, THAT WAS A POORLY PHRASED QUESTION. WHEN DID YOU RETURN FROM MARKED TREE?
MICHELLE - UM, SUNDAY AFTERNOON.
FOGLEMAN - ABOUT WHAT TIME?
001824
MICHELLE - PROBABLY ABOUT 5.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. ALRIGHT, UM, DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN YOUR MOM AND, KIND OF CONFUSING, YOUR STEPDADDY, REAL DADDY, WHEN THEY SEPARATED?
MICHELLE - WHO ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
FOGLEMAN - IM’ TALKING ABOUT JOE HUTCHINGSON.
MICHELLE - WHEN THEY SEPARATED.
FOGLEMAN - HOW MANY TIMES THEY SEPARATED? WHILE I’M PRYING AROUND HERE.
MICHELLE - WELL THEY DIVORCED ONCE...
FOGLEMAN - I’M TALKING ABOUT MORE RECENTLY.
MICHELLE - OH, THEY SEPARATED ONCE RECENTLY.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY, WHEN WAS THAT? DO YOU REMEMBER?
MICHELLE - UM, I WOULD SAY AROUND FIVE MONTHS AGO.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. DO YOU KNOW WHETHER IT WAS BEFORE OR AFTER THIS WEDNESDAY, MAY 5TH?
MICHELLE - UM, I DON’T KNOW.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. DID HE MOVE OUT, OR DID HE CONTINUE TO LIVE THERE?
MICHELLE - HE MOVED OUT.
FOGLEMAN - AND HOW LONG DID HE STAY GONE?
MICHELLE - APPROXIMATELY A WEEK.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY, BUT YOU DON’T REMEMBER WHEN THAT WAS?
MICHELLE - NO.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. DO YOU THINK IT WAS ANYTIME CLOSE TO WHEN THIS OCCURRED?
MICHELLE - UM, CLOSE. YES.
FOGLEMAN - ALRIGHT. DO YOU KNOW WHETHER HE WAS. . . OKAY, HOW
001825
CLOSE? DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA?
MICHELLE - NO.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. WHEN YOU. . . HOW DID YOU GET TO MARKED TREE?
MICHELLE - MY BOYFRIEND WOULD COME DOWN AND GET ME.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. AND HE’D TAKE YOU BACK?
MICHELLE - UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN - NOW, WHAT IS YOUR BOYFRIEND’S NAME AGAIN?
MICHELLE - WELL, HE WAS MY BOYFRIEND. THAT’S MIKE ELLENBURG.
FOGLEMAN - ALRIGHT, WHAT IS HIS MIDDLE NAME?
MICHELLE - EDWARD.
FOGLEMAN - HAS HE EVERY GONE BY DAMION TOO?
MICHELLE - NO.
FOGLEMAN - HE HAS NOT?
MICHELLE - NO.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. IS . . . DOES YOUR . . . . HAS YOUR BROTHER DAMION EVER STAYED UP IN MARKED TREE.
MICHELLE - NO. HE HATES MARKED TREE.
FOGLEMAN - HE HASN’T EVER STAYED IN MARKED TREE?
MICHELLE - NO.
FOGLEMAN - NEVER?
MICHELLE - NOT THAT I KNOW OF.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. SO FAR AS YOU KNOW, SAY IN THE LAST YEAR, HAS THERE EVER BEEN A PERIOD OF TIME WHEN DAMION’S BEEN SOMEWHERE THAT YOU DIDN’T KNOW WHERE HE WAS.
MICHELLE - IN THE LAST YEAR, YES, BECAUSE I WAS IN OREGON APPROXIMATELY 6 MONTHS AND HE WAS DOWN HERE.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. AFTER YOU GOT BACK FROM OREGON WAS THERE ANY PERIOD OF TIME WHERE HE’S LIVED AWAY AND YOU DIDN’T KNOW WHERE HE WAS?
MICHELLE - UM . . . I WOULD KNOW WHERE HE LIVED, BUT I WOULDN’T KNOW HE WAS ALL THE TIME.
001826
FOGLEMAN - ALRIGHT. WHERE HE LIVED.
MICHELLE - YEAH, I’VE KNOWN WHERE HE LIVED SINCE WE’VE BEEN BACK.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. AND TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, HE’S NEVER GONE AND STAYED 3 OR 4 DAYS IN MARKED TREE?
MICHELLE - NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. DO YOU REMEMBR ANYTHING IN PARTICULAR ABOUT WHEN YOUR MOM AND JOE HUTCHINGSON SEPARATED? ANYTHING THAT HAPPENED?
MICHELLE - UM, YOU MEAN AFTER THEY WERE SEPARATED?
FOGLEMAN - WERE YOU PRESENT WHEN THE SEPARATION OCCURRED?
MICHELLE - UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN - THAT’S WHAT I’M TALKING ABOUT. WHEN THAT OCCURRED.
MICHELLE - UM, THEY HAD A FIGHT. I DON’T KNOW WHAT THE FIGHT WAS ABOUT. THEY WERE IN THE BEDROOM, AND THEN HE CAME OUT AND WAS PACKING HIS BAGS AND HE CAME OUT WITH HIS BAGS AND LEFT.
FOGLEMAN - THAT WAS IT? OKAY. ANYBODY HAVE ANY . . . WAS DAMION THERE WHEN THAT HAPPENED?
MICHELLE - UM, I THINK SO, I CAN’T REMEMBER FOR SURE.
FOGLEMAN - DO YOU REMEMBER ANY KIND OF REACTION FROM YOU OR YOUR MOTHER OR DAMION TO HIS LEAVING?
MICHELLE - UM, ACTUALLY THERE WAS NO REACTION. EVERYBODY JUST SORT OF KEPT DOING WHAT THEY ALWAYS DO.
FOGLEMAN - OKAY. ANYTHING ELSE. ALRIGHT THIS TIME FOR REAL THIS IS OVER. IT’S 11:32 A.M., SEPTEMBER 10TH. THAT CONCLUDES THIS INTERVIEW OF MICHELLE ECHOLS. THANK YOU MICHELLE.
