THIS IS JOHN FOGLEMAN, DEPUTY PROSECUTING ATTORNEY FOR CRITTENDEN COUNTY. IT IS SEPTEMBER THE 10TH, 1993. IT'S 10:16 P.M. QUESTIONING OF...
GITCHELL- A.M.
FOGLEMAN- EXCUSE ME, A.M. QUESTIONING OF PAMELA JOYCE HUTCHISON. SHE'S HERE REPRESENTED BY HER APPOINTED ATTORNEY, GERALD COLEMAN. ALSO PRESENT IS INSPECTOR...IS THAT RIGHT? GARY GITCHELL. BEFORE WE GET STARTED, YOU'LL NEED TO RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND. DO YOU PAMELA HUTCHISON SWEAR OR AFFIRM TO TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH?
PAMELA- I DO.
FOGLEMAN- STATE YOUR NAME AND WHERE YOU LIVE.
PAMELA- PAMELA JOYCE HUTCHISON. I LIVE AT 2706 SOUTHGROVE.
FOGLEMAN- HOW LONG HAVE YOU LIVED THERE?
PAMELA- ABOUT 5 MONTHS.
FOGLEMAN- WHO LIVES THERE WITH YOU?
PAMELA- MY HUSBAND, MY DAUGHTER AND MY MOTHER.
FOGLEMAN- AND CAN YOU SAY THEIR NAMES FOR ME?
PAMELA- JOE HUTCHISON, CONSTANCE ECHOLS, OR MICHELLE ECHOLS. EVERYBODY CALLS HER MICHELLE. AND MY MOTHER FRANCIS.
FOGLEMAN- WHAT'S HER LAST NAME?
PAMELA- HANES.
FOGLEMAN- WHO IS FRANCIS GOSA?
PAMELA- FRANCIS HANES IS FRANCIS GOSA.
FOGLEMAN- IT'S THE SAME PERSON?
PAMELA- YEAH, SHE WAS MARRIED TO MY DAD, WHO WAS A GOSA FOR 40 SOMETHING YEARS.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. AND BACK IN MAY OF 93 DID THE SAME PEOPLE LIVE THERE?
PAMELA- YEAH.
FOGLEMAN- ANYBODY ELSE?
PAMELA- NO. YES, DAMION.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. WHEN DID YA'LL...HOW LONG HAVE YA'LL LIVED AT THAT ADDRESS?
PAMELA- ABOUT 5 MONTHS.
FOGLEMAN- WHEN DID YOU...DO YOU REMEMBER ABOUT WHAT MONTH IT WAS WHEN YOU MOVED THERE?
PAMELA- ABOUT MARCH.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. HOW OLD IS MICHELLE?
PAMELA- 16.
FOGLEMAN- WHAT GR...DOES SHE GO TO SCHOOL?
PAMELA- SHE ENROLLS IN VO-TECH THE FIRST OF NEXT WEEK.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. THIS IS JUST AN ASIDE, YOU UNDERSTAND UNTIL SHE'S 17, SHE'S GOT TO BE INVOLVED IN SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
PAMELA- YES.
FOGLEMAN- UM....AND WHAT IS DAMION'S DATE OF BIRTH?
PAMELA- 12/11/74.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT. AND WHAT WAS HIS BIRTH NAME?
PAMELA- MICHAEL WAYNE HUTCHISON.
FOGLEMAN- WHEN DID HE CHANGE IT TO DAMION?
PAMELA- ABOUT 3 YEARS AGO.
FOGLEMAN- WAS THAT A LEGAL PROCEEDING?
PAMELA- YES, IT WAS.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT, WHERE DID THAT TAKE PLACE?
PAMELA- UM, AT, WELL, WE WENT TO COURT AT MARION.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. ALRIGHT, WAS UM, ALRIGHT, WHEN DID HE BECOME ECHOLS?
PAMELA- ABOUT 3 YEARS AGO.
FOGLEMAN- SAME TIME.
PAMELA- YEAH.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT DID THE CHANGE TO DAMION COME AT THE SAME TIME THAT THE CHANGE TO ECHOLS OCCURRED?
PAMELA- YES, YES.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. SO IT WAS IN AN ADOPTION PROCEEDING. ALRIGHT, YOU WERE FIRST MARRIED TO JOE HUTCHISON.
PAMELA- RIGHT.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT. AND HOW LONG WERE YA'LL MARRIED THE FIRST GO AROUND?
PAM- 12 YEARS.
FOGLEMAN- AND WHEN DID YA'LL DIVORCE?
PAM- UM, IN ABOUT 86. 1986.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT. WHERE DID THAT TAKE PLACE?
PAM- WEST MEMPHIS.
FOGLEMAN- AND THEN, WHEN DID YOU MARRY JACK ECHOLS?
PAM- SEPTEMBER 28TH OR THE SAME YEAR. WHICH SHOULD HAVE BEEN 86.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, AND THEN YOU SAID THE ADOPTION TOOK PLACE IN 89?
PAM- UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN- IS THAT RIGHT?
PAM- 89.
FOGLEMAN- AND IN THAT ADOPTION PROCEEDING, WHAT WAS DAMION'S NAME LEGALLY CHANGED TO?
PAM- DAMION WAYNE ECHOLS.
FOGLEMAN- AND WHEN DID YOU AND MR. ECHOLS DIVORCE?
PAM- UM, IN SHOULD HAVE BEEN MARCH OF 92. UH, THE DIVORCE BECAME FINAL IN MAY, I BELIEVE.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. WHO REPRESENTED YOU IN THAT?
PAM- I DIDN'T HAVE AN ATTORNEY.
FOGLEMAN- WHO REPRESENTED MR. ECHOLS?
PAM- JAN THOMAS.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. AND WHEN DID YOU RE-MARRY MR. HUTCHISON?
PAM- FEBRUARY 9TH.
FOGLEMAN- OF 93?
PAM- OF 93.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT. OKAY NOW FOR A TIME, YA'LL...LET ME BACK UP. HOW MANY TIMES HAS DAMION BEEN HOSPITALIZED?
PAM- 3, I BELIEVE IT WAS 3.
FOGLEMAN- AND I SHOULD CLARIFY THAT. HOSPITALIZED FOR SOME EMOTIONAL OR MENTAL SITUATION.
PAM- RIGHT.
FOGLEMAN- 3 TIMES?
PAM- YES.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT, WAS THAT TWICE IN LITTLE ROCK?
PAM- UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN- AND ONCE IN....
PAM- OREGON.
FOGLEMAN- OREGON.
PAM- UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT, I KNOW ABOUT THE ONES, ABOUT LITTLE ROCK. UH TELL ME ABOUT THE TIME HE WAS HOSPITALIZED IN OREGON.
PAM- IT WAS BASICALLY FOR THE SAME THING. HE WAS REAL DEPRESSED. HE CRIED A LOT. HE DIDN'T WANT TO COME OUT OF HIS ROOM.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. ALRIGHT, AND THEN HE MOVED BACK TO WEST MEMPHIS WITHOUT YA'LL. IS THAT RIGHT?
PAM- RIGHT. RIGHT. HE STAYED WITH JACK.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. AND WHERE DOES MR. ECHOLS LIVE?
PAM- AT LAKESHORE.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT. AND WHEN DID DAMION COME BACK HERE, TO CRITTENDEN COUNTY.
PAM- UH, ...IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN SEPTEMBER OF 92.
FOGLEMAN- SEPTEMBER OF 92. OKAY, AND WHEN DID YOU MOVE BACK?
PAM- IN FEBRUARY, ABOUT FEBRUARY OF THIS YEAR.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT. WHO ALL WAS LIVING OUT IN OREGON?
PAM- UH, JOE, MICHELLE, MY MOTHER, DAMION AND MYSELF.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. ALRIGHT SO YOU REMARRIED IN FEBRUARY OF THIS YEAR, BUT YOU WERE LIVING TOGETHER AS A FAMILY BACK IN SEPTEMBER AND OCTOBER, IS THAT RIGHT?
PAM- YEAH.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, AND IN OREGON?
PAM- YEAH.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT, DID YA'LL ALL MOVE OUT THERE, OR WAS HE ALREADY OUT THERE, OR WHAT....
PAM- NO, WE ALL MOVED OUT THERE TOGETHER.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. AND WHERE DID YOU LIVE IN OREGON?
PAM- UM, I LIVED ON A STREET, UH WE LIVED IN BEAVERTON.
FOGLEMAN- BEAVERTON?
PAM- UH HUH, AND WE LIVED IN ALOHA. AT FIRST.
FOGLEMAN- COULD YOU SPELL ALOHA.
PAM- A-L-O-H-A.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. AND THAT'S ALSO IN OREGON?
PAM- YEAH. THEY'RE CONNECTING TOWNS.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. WHAT SIZE AREA IS IT? THE TOWNS.
PAM- OH, I HAVE NO IDEA. THEY ARE BIG.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. COMPARED TO, IS IT LIKE MEMPHIS, OR...
PAM- YEAH.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY.
PAM- ALOHA'S NOT, BUT WHEN WE MOVED TO ALOHA TO BEAVERTON, BEAVERTON'S LIKE MEMPHIS.
FOGLEMAN- DID DAMION HAVE ANY TROUBLE WITH THE LAW IN OREGON?
PAM- NONE WHATSOEVER.
FOGLEMAN- DIDN'T HAVE ANY KIND, NO TRAFFIC TICKETS, NO...
PAM- NO.
FOGLEMAN- ANYTHING. OKAY. DID HE WORK WHEN HE WAS IN OREGON?
PAM- YES, HE DID.
FOGLEMAN- WHERE DID HE WORK?
PAM- AT A BP SERVICE STATION.
FOGLEMAN- DO YOU KNOW WHERE IT WAS, WHAT LOCATION IT WAS?
PAM- UM, NO SIR, I CAN'T. I MEAN, I'VE GOT IT IN MY MIND, BUT I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY THE NAME OF THE STREET.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY.
PAM- I DO KNOW HE MOVED FROM ONE BP STATION TO ANOTHER, BUT A SECOND ONE THAT HE WORKED AT WAS A RALEIGH HILLS.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, THE SECOND ONE WAS AT RALEIGH HILLS, IN WHICH TOWN?
PAM- BEAVERTON.
FOGLEMAN- BEAVERTON. AND HOW LONG TOTAL DID HE WORK THERE?
PAM- UM, PROBABLY 3 MONTHS. MAYBE 4 MONTHS.
FOGLEMAN- UH, AND THEN HE CAME BACK HERE IN SEPTEMBER....
PAM- IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN SEPTEMBER, YES.
FOGLEMAN- AND THEN HE LIVED WITH HIS STEP, OR....
PAM- ADOPTED DAD.
FOGLEMAN- ADOPTED FATHER.
PAM- YEAH.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT. NOW DID HE LIVE WITH ANYBODY ELSE?
PAM- UM, HE STAYED WITH DOMINI AND DIANE SOME, BUT AS FAR AS I KNOW HE DIDN'T LIVE WITH ANYBODY ELSE.
FOGLEMAN- UH, WHAT ABOUT A LADY BY THE NAME OF LIGGETT?
PAM- NO, HE DID NOT LIVE WITH HER.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, WHAT IS THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THIS...
PAM- SHE'S HIS AUNT.
FOGLEMAN- HER NAME IS PAT.
PAM- UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN- WHERE DOES SHE LIVE?
PAM- ON ELIZABETH LANE IN WEST MEMPHIS.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT. AND SHE'S ..IS THAT YOUR HUSBAND'S SISTER, OR YOUR SISTER?
PAM- IT'S MY HUSBAND'S SISTER.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT. AND THEN YOU MOVED BACK FROM OREGON. TELL ME THAT AGAIN, WHEN?
PAM- UM, FEBRUARY.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, OF THIS YEAR?
PAM- YES.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT, AND IS THAT WHEN YOU MOVED ON SOUTH GROVE?
PAM- YES.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY.
PAM- WE STAYED WITH SOME FRIENDS ON BALFOUR BEFORE WE RENTED THE TRAILER.
FOGLEMAN- WHO WERE THOSE FRIENDS.
PAM- SUSAN AND RANDY SANDERS.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT AND HOW LONG DID YOU LIVE WITH THEM?
PAM- ABOUT A MONTH.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. HOW LONG HAVE YOU KNOW THE SANDERS?
PAM- OH, ABOUT 14 OR 15 YEARS.
FOGLEMAN- HAVE YA'LL EVER LIVED WITH THEM BEFORE?
PAM- YES. LOTS OF TIMES.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT. WHAT WAS THE LONGEST PERIOD OF TIME YOU EVER LIVED WITH THEM?
PAM- PROBABLY A YEAR.
FOGLEMAN- WHERE WAS THAT?
PAM- IN TEXAS OR MISSISSIPPI. WE LIVED TOGETHER BOTH PLACES.
GITCHELL- ONE YEAR.
PAM- ABOUT A YEAR.
FOGLEMAN- AND WHEN YOU MOVED BACK AFTER LIVING WITH THE SANDERS FOR THE FEW MONTHS, THEN YOU MOVED TO SOUTH GROVE?
PAM- NO.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT, WHERE DID YOU MOVE THEN?
PAM- UM, WHEN WE CAME BACK FROM OREGON, WE STAYED WITH THEM FOR A LITTLE WHILE. AND THEN WE RENTED THE TRAILER.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY.
PAM- WE HAD STORAGE WHERE WE HAD OUR STUFF. WE DIDN'T TAKE UP RESIDENCE THERE. IT WAS JUST A PLACE TO STAY UNTIL WE....
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT, YOU STAYED THERE ABOUT A MONTH.
PAM- YES.
FOGLEMAN- AND THEN IS THAT WHEN YOU MOVED TO SOUTH GROVE ADDRESS?
PAM- YES.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. AND WHEN YOU MOVED TO THE SOUTH GROVE ADDRESS, WHO LIVED THERE? WHEN YOU FIRST MOVED IN.
PAM- FRANCIS HANES, JOE HUTCHISON, MICHELLE AND MYSELF. AND DAMION.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT, DID HE...WHEN YOU IMMEDIATELY WHEN YOU MOVED BACK?
PAM- NO, IT WAS ABOUT...HE STAYED THERE MOST OF THE TIME, BUT HE DIDN'T MOVE ALL OF HIS STUFF IN FOR A COUPLE OF WEEKS.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT, SINCE YOU'VE BEEN BACK, HAS HE HAD ANY JOB HERE IN THIS AREA?
PAM- NO.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. NOW I UNDERSTAND THAT HE GETS SOME KIND OF A DISABILITY CHECK, IS THAT RIGHT?
PAM- YES SIR. HE WAS..HE WAS GETTING A DISABILITY CHECK.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT, SSI OR SOMETHING.
PAM- YES SIR.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT. UM, AND I ASSUME THAT'S RELATION TO...IS IT PHYSICAL, MENTAL...
PAM- JUST MENTAL.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. HOW FAR DID DAMION GO IN SCHOOL?
PAM- UM, HE WENT TO THE 9TH GRADE, BUT HE GOT HIS GED.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. WHEN DID HE GET HIS GED?
PAM- UM, HE GOT HIS GED WHILE I WAS IN OREGON, SO IT'S BEEN, I IMAGINE ABOUT 7 MONTHS AGO, 7 OR 8 MONTHS AGO. I'M NOT FOR SURE OF THAT DATE BECAUSE I WASN'T HERE WHEN HE GOT IT.
FOGLEMAN- NOW I UNDERSTAND THAT DAMION SAYS THAT HE'S A WICCA. W-I-C-C-A.
PAM- YES SIR.
FOGLEMAN- WHEN DID HE FIRST BECOME INTERESTED, TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, IN THIS WITCHCRAFT, OR THE OCCULT OR WHATEVER IT IS? WHEN WERE YOU FIRST AWARE OF IT?
PAM- BEFORE I LEFT HERE TO GO TO OREGON, SO PROBABLY A YEAR AND A HALF.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. DO YOU KNOW HOW HE GOT STARTED IN IT?
PAM- NOT FOR A FACT, I DON'T KNOW, BUT MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THE YOUNG LADY HE WAS SEEING AT THE TIME, BEFORE HE WAS HOSPITALIZED....
FOGLEMAN- IS THAT DIANNA HOLCOMB?
PAM- WAS THE ONE THAT INTRODUCED HIM TO IT.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT. DID HE EVER HAVE ANY LITERATURE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT ABOUT THIS....
PAM- I NEVER SAW ANY. I NEVER SAW ANY LITERATURE. UNTIL OVER HERE AT SOUTH GROVE, AND THEN I SAW A LITTLE PAMPHLET.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, WHAT KIND OF PAMPHLET WAS IT?
PAM- UM, IT WAS A LITTLE PAMPHLET FROM A BOOKSTORE OVER IN MEMPHIS THAT TOLD WHAT KIND OF BOOKS YOU COULD GET.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. DO YOU REMEMBER THE NAME OF THE BOOKSTORE?
PAM- NO I SURE DON'T.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT, NOW I WANT TO DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO EARLY MAY, IN FACT, SPECIFICALLY MAY THE 5TH. MAY THE 5TH OF THIS YEAR. UH, OR COURSE UNDERSTANDING THAT IT'S NOW SEPTEMBER THE 10TH. DO YOU REMEMBER WHERE YOU WERE THAT DAY?
PAM- YES SIR, I SURE DO.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. TELL ME WHAT YOU DID THAT DAY.
PAM- UH, DAMION HAD A DOCTOR'S APPOINTMENT AT 11:00.
FOGLEMAN- WHERE WAS THAT APPOINTMENT?
PAM- EAST ARKANSAS MENTAL HEALTH CENTER.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY.
PAM- UM, I LEFT THE HOUSE ABOUT 10:15 TO TAKE HIM FOR HIS 11 O'CLOCK APPOINTMENT. AND HE DIDN'T GET TO SEE THE DOCTOR UNTIL ABOUT 12. HE SAW DR. IRBY BECAUSE HIS COUNSELOR, SHERRY DOCKINS WAS NOT THERE.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY.
PAM- WE LEFT, WELL WHILE WE WERE THERE, WE TALKED TO CAROL ASHMORE, AND....
FOGLEMAN- WHO IS SHE?
PAM- SHE'S....
FOGLEMAN- DOES SHE WORK THERE?
PAM- NO, SHE WAS THERE WITH A FRIEND, AND SHE USED TO BE MY STEP-DAUGHTER.
FOGLEMAN- UH HUH.
PAM- UM, WE TALKED TO HER FOR A FEW MINUTES, AND WE LEFT THE MENTAL HEALTH CENTER AROUND 12:30, 12:35, SOMEWHERE IN THAT AREA.
FOGLEMAN- UH HUH, AND WHERE DID YOU GO AFTER YOU LEFT THERE?
PAM- TO MARION DISCOUNT PHARMACY.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, AND WHAT DID YOU DO THERE?
PAM- I DROPPED OFF A BOTTLE TO HAVE HIS PRESCRIPTION FILLED.
FOGLEMAN- IS THERE ANY REASON WHY YOU DIDN'T WAIT AND...
PAM- YEAH, CAUSE HE WAS BUSY.
FOGLEMAN- AND WHEN DID YOU PICK UP THE PRESCRIPTION?
PAM- AROUND 4:30 THAT AFTERNOON.
FOGLEMAN- THAT SAME DAY?
PAM- YES.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, SO YOU DROPPED IT OFF THAT MORNING AND PICKED IT UP THAT SAME DAY?
PAM- I DROPPED IT OFF AROUND 1.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, EXCUSE ME, I MISSED THAT THEN. YOU DROPPED IT OFF ABOUT 1 AND YOU PICKED IT UP ABOUT 4:30.
PAM- YES.
FOGLEMAN- THAT SAME DAY?
PAM- YES.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY AND UM, ALRIGHT AFTER DROPPING OFF THE PRESCRIPTION, WHERE DID YOU GO?
PAM- I CARRIED DAMION TO DOMINI'S.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT AND WHERE DOES SHE LIVE, AT THAT TIME?
PAM- AT LAKESHORE.
FOGLEMAN- AT LAKESHORE?
PAM- YES.
FOGLEMAN- UH, ABOUT WHAT TIME WAS IT WHEN YOU DROPPED HIM OFF?
PAM- A LITTLE AFTER 1.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, AND THEN WHAT DID YOU DO?
PAM- I WENT HOME.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. AND DID YOU DO ANYTHING AT HOME, I MEAN WATCH T.V.....
PAM- I PROBABLY WASHED DISHES AND WATCHED TV AND FIXED MY MOTHER DINNER.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. AND UH, WHAT WAS THE NEXT CONTACT YOU HAD WITH DAMION, OR DID YOU LEAVE ANYWHERE DURING THAT TIME?
PAM- NO, I DIDN'T GO ANYWHERE ELSE UNTIL ABOUT 3:30 THAT AFTERNOON.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY.
PAM- JOE, AND MYSELF AND MICHELLE WENT TO PICK DAMION AND DOMINI UP AT THE LAUNDRYMAT ON MISSOURI STREET.
FOGLEMAN- AND WHAT TIME WAS THAT?
PAM- WE LEFT OUR HOUSE ABOUT 3:30. WE GOT TO THE LAUNDRYMAT AROUND A QUARTER TIL 4.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. AND DID HE SAY WHAT HE WAS DOING, FIRST DID HE SAY HOW HE GOT TO THE LAUNDRYMAT?
PAM- HE WALKED
FOGLEMAN- FROM LAKESHORE.
PAM- HE WALKED FROM LAKESHORE. DAMION, DOMINI, JASON AND I BELIEVE THERE WAS ANOTHER YOUNG MAN WITH THEM BY THE NAME OF KEN OR KENT.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY.
PAM- THEY WALKED TO JASON'S UNCLES.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY.
PAM- WHICH IS RIGHT AROUD THE CORNER FROM THE LAUNDRYMAT.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT, AND WHAT WERE THEY DOING THERE, DO YOU KNOW?
PAM- JASON HAD TO MOW HIS YARD.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. AND THEN THIS IS SOMETHING THAT YOU'VE BEEN TOLD, I MEAN, YOU DIDN'T SEE THEM DO ALL THIS, BUT...
PAM- NO, I JUST KNOW IT.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT, WHO TOLD YOU THAT?
PAM- DAMION TOLD ME THAT HE COULDN'T STAY THERE, BECAUSE JASON WAS TOLD HE HAD TO MOW HIS UNCLE'S YARD. SO THEY HAD TO LEAVE.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. AND UH, BUT, ALRIGHT. OKAY. THEY WALKED THERE, AND THEN JASON WENT TO MOWING AND THEN DAMION AND DOMINI....
PAM- WALKED TO THE LAUNDRYMAT ON MISSOURI STREET.
FOGLEMAN- DID DAMION TELL YOU WHETHER HE TALKED TO ANYBODY THERE AT THE HOUSE?
PAM- UH..
FOGLEMAN- JASON'S UNCLE, OR ANYBODY, OR DO YOU REMEMBER?
PAM- UM, I BELIEVE HE SAID HE DID SPEAK TO JASON'S UNCLE.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, UM, YOU SAY YOU PICKED HIM UP AT ABOUT WHAT TIME AT THE LAUNDRYMAT?
PAM- IT WAS ABOUT A QUARTER TIL 4.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, AND THEN WHERE DID YOU GOT FROM THERE?
PAM- FROM THE LAUNDRYMAT, WE CARRIED DOMINI BACK HOME, AND WE WENT BACK OUT TO MARION DISCOUNT PHARMACY...
FOGLEMAN- OKAY.
PAM- AND PICKED UP HIS MEDICINE.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. WHAT WAS, IF YOU REMEMBER, WHAT WAS DOMINI WEARING THAT DAY?
PAM- I THINK IT WAS A MULTI-COLORED T'SHIRT AND A PAIR OF JEANS.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. DO YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING ABOUT THE JEANS?
PAM- NO, I DON'T. I'M NOT POSITIVE THAT'S WHAT SHE WAS WEARING, BUT THAT'S WHAT SHE WEARS MOST OF THE TIME.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, HOW ABOUT DAMION?
PAM- UM, I DON'T REMEMBER. HE PROBABLY HAD ON BLACK.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. OKAY, WERE THEY, AT THAT PARTICULAR TIME, WHAT DID HE WEAR ON HIS FEET MOST OF THE TIME? OR IF YOU REMEMBER THAT PARTICULAR DAY WHAT HE HAD ON THAT WOULD BE FINE.
PAM- MOST OF THE TIME HE WORE, I THINK THEY'RE ARMY BOOTS.
FOGLEMAN- ARE THE BLACK, GREEN...
PAM- THEY'RE BLACK.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. ABOUT HOW HIGH UP THE LEG DO THEY COME?
PAM- I GUESS ABOUT CALF LENGTH. SOMEWHERE LIKE THIS.
FOGLEMAN- ABOUT MID-WAY UP THE LOWER LEG?
PAM- YEAH, I KNOW THEY'RE ABOUT THE ANKLE.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. ALRIGHT, AND THEN YOU TOOK DOMINI TO LAKESHORE.
PAM- RIGHT.
FOGLEMAN- AND THEN YOU, WHO ELSE WAS WITH YOU?
PAM- JOE AND MICHELLE.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT JOE AND MICHELLE.
PAM- AND DAMION AND DOMINI.
FOGLEMAN- AND DAMION AND DOMINI. AND WHAT CAR WERE YOU IN?
PAM- THE BLUE CHRYSLER THAT WE HAVE NOW.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, AND YA'LL WENT TO THE PHARMACY?
PAM- RIGHT.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, WHO WENT IN TO THE PHARMACY AND GOT IT?
PAM- ME.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, AND THEN AFTER YOU LEFT THE PHARMACY, WHERE DID YOU GO?
PAM- HOME.
FOGLEMAN- HOME? ALRIGHT, AND ABOUT WHAT TIME DID YOU GET HOME?
PAM- UM, AROUND 5, I GUESS IT WAS AROUND 5 WHEN WE GOT HOME.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT. AND WHAT DID YOU DO WHEN YOU GOT HOME?
PAM- FIXED SUPPER.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, AND....
PAM- AND WATCHED A LITTLE BIT OF T.V.
FOGLEMAN- DO YOU KNOW ABOUT WHAT TIME YA'LL ATE SUPPER?
PAM- AROUND 5:30 OR 6.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, AND WHO ALL ATE SUPPER?
PAM- MAMA, DAMION, JOE, MICHELLE, MYSELF.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, AND WHAT...YOU SAID...TELL ME AGAIN WHAT TIME YOU SAID?
PAM- AROUND 5:30.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, UH, AND THEN YOU ATE, DID YOU CLEAN UP AFTER YOU ATE?
PAM- YES, I ALWAYS DO.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, AND THEN WHAT DID YOU DO?
PAM- UM, WATCHED T.V. UNTIL ABOUT 6:30.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT YOU WATCHED?
PAM- NO, I DON'T.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, THEN AT 6:30 WHAT DID YOU DO?
PAM- WE LEFT TO GO OVER AT SUSAN AND RANDY SANDERS.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT, AND WHO ALL WENT?
PAM- JOE, MICHELLE, DAMION AND MYSELF.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, AND DID YOU GO STRAIGHT THERE?
PAM- YEAH.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT, ABOUT WHAT TIME DID YOU ARRIVE?
PAM- A LITTLE BIT BEFORE 7. UH, PROBABLY 10 OR 15 TIL.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT. AND WHEN YOU GOT THERE, YOU WAS THERE?
PAM- JENNIFER SANDERS.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT. HOW OLD IS SHE?
PAM- 11.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT. DID YOU GO IN THE HOUSE?
PAM- YES, I DID.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT. WHO ELSE WENT IN THE HOUSE.
PAM- ALL OF US WENT IN.
FOGLEMAN- ALL OF YOU?
PAM- JOE, DAMION, MICHELLE AND MYSELF. ALL OF US WENT IN.
FOGLEMAN- AND WHAT DID YOU DO WHEN YOU WENT IN?
PAM- I SAT DOWN AT THE KITCHEN TABLE AND ASKED JENNIFER WHERE WAS HER MOM AND DAD. AND SHE TOLD ME THAT THEY HAD GONE TO SPLASH.
FOGLEMAN- SHE DIDN'T TELL YOU BEFORE YOU CAME IN THE HOUSE?
PAM- UH UH.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, UH...HAD YA'LL BEEN TO SPLASH WITH THEM BEFORE?
PAM- NO.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, UM, HAVE YA'LL BEEN TO SPLASH WITH THEM?
PAM- YES.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT. HOW MANY TIMES?
PAM- UM, I'VE BEEN WITH SUSAN AND RANDY ONCE, WHICH WAS ON THE 3RD, BECAUSE RANDY DRAWS SOCIAL SECURITY AND WE HAD TO WAIT....
FOGLEMAN- THE 3RD OF?
PAM- UM, JUNE.
FOGLEMAN- OF JUNE, OKAY.
PAM- AND THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT ALL OF US WENT TOGETHER.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY.
PAM- AND THEN ONE TIME, WE'VE BEEN, JOE AND MYSELF AND MY MOTHER AND RANDY HAVE BEEN TOGETHER. AND THEN....
FOGLEMAN- WHEN WAS THAT?
PAM- THAT'S BEEN ABOUT A MONTH AGO.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. ALRIGHT, NOW YOU GOT TO THE SANDERS HOUSE AND JENNIFER, YA'LL SAT DOWN AT THE KITCHEN TABLE?
PAM- I SAT DOWN AT THE TABLE.
FOGLEMAN- YOU SAT DOWN.
PAM- JOE, DAMION AND MICHELLE WERE SITTING ON THE COUCH.
FOGLEMAN- AND WHAT WERE THEY DOING, JUST....
PAM- JUST SITTING THERE LOOKING AT THE T.V.
FOGLEMAN- DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT WAS ON?
PAM- NO, I DON'T.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. AND UM, THEN WHAT HAPPENED?
PAM- WE GOT READY TO LEAVE.
FOGLEMAN- HOW LONG DID YOU STAY?
PAM- UM, NOT...ABOUT 30 MINUTES.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY.
PAM- I WOULDN'T THINK IT WOULD BE OVER 30 MINUTES.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT. THEN WHAT HAPPENED?
PAM- UM, I WROTE SUSAN A NOTE ON A PIECE OF PAPER, BECAUSE HER PURSE WAS SITTING ON THE TABLE. AND TOLD HER THAT WE HAD BEEN BY THERE, AND I ROLLED IT UP AND STUCK IT LONGWAYS IN HER PURSE.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY.
PAM- AND THEN WE LEFT AND WENT BACK HOME.
FOGLEMAN- STRAIGHT HOME?
PAM- UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, AND WHAT DID YOU DO WHEN YOU GOT HOME?
PAM- WATCHED T.V.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT YOU WATCHED?
PAM- NO, I DON'T. MOST OF THE TIME, I DON'T PAY THAT MUCH ATTENTION TO IT.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT, WHO ALL WAS WATCHING T.V.?
PAM- JOE, MICHELLE, AND MYSELF AND MY MOTHER. SHE SITS IN HER BEDROOM AND WATCHES T.V.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, WHERE WAS DAMION?
PAM- HE WAS IN MY BEDROOM ON THE TELEPHONE.
FOGLEMAN- DO YOU KNOW WHO HE WAS TALKING TO?
PAM- HE TALKED TO JASON.
FOGLEMAN- DO YOU KNOW ABOUT WHAT TIME HE TALKED TO JASON?
PAM- UH, NO, I DON'T. I KNOW HE GOT ON THE PHONE UM, AROUND 7:30, I GUESS.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY.
PAM- AND FROM 7:30 UNTIL ABOUT 10:30 OR UNTIL A QUARTER TO 11 HE WAS ON THE PHONE THE WHOLE TIME.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. AND HE TALKED TO JASON, WHO ELSE DID HE TALK TO?
PAM- JENNIFER.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, JENNIFER...?
PAM- I DON'T KNOW WHO SHE IS, JUST JENNIFER'S ALL I KNOW.
FOGLEMAN- DO YOU KNOW WHERE SHE LIVES, OR...
PAM- UM, SHE LIVES IN MEMPHIS.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY.
PAM- AND UH, HOLLY AND DOMINI.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, AND WHO'S HOLLY?
PAM- SHE'S ANOTHER LITTLE FRIEND OF HIS.
FOGLEMAN- DO YOU KNOW HER NAME?
PAM- UM, HOLLY GEORGE.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, DO YOU KNOW WHERE SHE LIVES?
PAM- SHE LIVES IN MEMPHIS TOO.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, UM, AND THEN HE TALKED TO DOMINI.
PAM- UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN- ANYBODY ELSE THAT YOU KNOW OF?
PAM- NOT THAT I KNOW OF.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. ALRIGHT, AND YOU SAY THAT HE WAS IN THE BEDROOM THE WHOLE TIME.
PAM- YES.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. UM,.......NOW, I UNDERSTAND THAT AT SOME POINT, YOU AND YOUR HUSBAND, JOE, SEPARATED?
PAM- UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT, WHEN WAS THAT?
PAM- IT WAS ON MAY 9TH.
FOGLEMAN- MAY THE 9TH?
PAM- YES.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT...
PAM- BECAUSE I WAS THINKING IT WAS BEFORE, BUT IT WASN'T IT WAS ON THE 9TH.
FOGLEMAN- WHAT WAS IT THAT MADE YOU DECIDE IT WAS THE 9TH?
PAM- BECAUSE I REMEMBER HIS BIRTHDAY CAKE SITTING ON THE TABLE.
FOGLEMAN- WHEN'S HIS BIRTHDAY?
PAM- MAY THE 9TH.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, BUT YOU WERE ORIGINALLY THINKING IT WAS BEFORE?
PAM- YES.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT. HOW LONG DID YA'LL STAY SEPARATED?
PAM- UH, ABOUT 2 WEEKS.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. WHERE DID HE LIVE WHILE YA'LL WERE SEPARATED?
PAM- WITH HIS MOTHER.
FOGLEMAN- WHERE DOES SHE LIVE?
PAM- ON DABBS ROAD.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. I'M GOING TO STOP THIS JUST FOR A MINUTE. IT IS 10:42 P.M. 10:42 A.M. WE'RE BACK ON THE RECORD. IT IS 10:47 A.M., SEPTEMBER 10TH, 1993. THIS IS JOHN FOGLEMAN, THE SAME PERSONS ARE PRESENT: PAMELA HUTCHISON, GERALD COLEMAN, HER APPOINTED ATTORNEY AND INSPECTOR GITCHELL OF THE WEST MEMPHIS POLICE DEPARTMENT. UM, DID DAMION RECEIVE ANY PHONE CALLS, THAT NIGHT?
PAM- YES, HE DID.
FOGLEMAN- DO YOU KNOW WHO IT WAS FROM?
PAM- UM, I KNOW THAT HE GOT ONE FROM JASON, AND I BELIEVE THAT JENNIFER CALLED OUR HOUSE ONCE TOO.
FOGLEMAN- ANYBODY ELSE?
PAM- UM, I DON'T THINK SO.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. DO YOU KNOW WHO A PERSON BY THE NAME OF SOMETHING LIKE ALVIE OR ALVIN SHETTLES? HE HAS A NAME OF SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
PAM- IT DOESN'T SOUND FAMILIAR.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. DOESN'T RING ANY BELLS.
PAM- NO.
FOGLEMAN- DO YOU KNOW OF, WHY ANYBODY WITH A, DO YOU KNOW.. WHAT IS THE INVESTIGATOR'S NAME, DO YOU KNOW?
PAM- JUAN.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, WHAT IS HIS LAST NAME DO YOU KNOW?
PAM- LAX.
FOGLEMAN- DO YOU KNOW OF....
PAM- GLORY SHETTLES. SHETTLES IS THAT THE NAME.....
FOGLEMAN- COULD BE.
PAM- THAT YOU'RE ASKING?
FOGLEMAN- WHO IS SHE?
PAM- SHE'S ONE OF THE INVESTIGATOR'S ALSO.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, AND HER NAME IS GLORIA?
PAM- UH HUH. GLORIA.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. SHETTLES?
PAM- UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. WE'RE GOING TO TURN THE TAPE OVER. IT'S 10:48 A.M. WE'RE BACK ON THE RECORD AFTER TURNING THE TAPE OVER. AGAIN IT'S SEPTEMBER 10, 1993. IT'S 10:49 A.M. WHAT TIME DID YOU GO TO BED THAT NIGHT?
PAM- UH, A LITTLE AFTER 11.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT. AND WAS DAMION STILL IN YOUR ROOM WHEN YOU WENT IN THERE TO GO TO BED?
PAM- NO, HE WAS IN MICHELLE'S ROOM.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. DOES SHE HAVE A PHONE TOO?
PAM- NO, SHE DOESN'T.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. THE PHONE'S IN YOUR BEDROOM?
PAM- YES.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. AND WHEN YOU GOT READY TO GO TO BED, HE WAS IN YOUR DAUGHTER, MICHELLE'S ROOM.
PAM- RIGHT.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. HAVE YOU EVER READ ANY OF YOUR SON'S WRITINGS?
PAM- YES SIR, I HAVE.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT. HAVE YOU READ ANY OF THEM WHERE HE TALKS ABOUT BEING ON THE DARK SIDE?
PAM- YES SIR.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, HAVE YOU EVER ASKED HIM ABOUT THOSE?
PAM- UM, I UNDERSTAND A LOT OF WHAT HE WRITES. I TRY TO GET HIM TO EXPLAIN SOME OF IT TO ME. BUT, IT ALWAYS SEEMS TO BE BECAUSE HE'S IN SUCH A STATE OF DEPRESSION. THAT'S WHY HE WRITES LIKE HE DOES.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. UM, WE'VE GOT A STATEMENT FROM SOMEBODY WHO SAID THAT THEY HAD SEEN DAMION IN THE TRAILER PARK WITH DOGGIN PISTONS WRAPPED AROUND HIS NECK, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. HAVE YOU EVER HEARD...SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THAT OR HEARD ANYTHING LIKE THAT?
PAM- NO, I HAVEN'T.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT. DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT DAMION HAVING CAT SKULLS AND CARRYING THEM AROUND?
PAM- IT WASN'T A CAT SKULL. IT WAS A DOG SKULL.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT. WHERE WAS THAT?
PAM- IT WAS HANGING ON MY CLOTHES LINE IN THE BACK YARD WHERE I MADE HIM LEAVE IT OUT THERE TO DRY BEFORE HE CARRIES IT TO SCHOOL.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. LEAVE IT OUT THERE TO DRY. WHAT HAD HE DONE TO IT?
PAM- HE FOUND IT ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, BUT I MEAN, WHAT DID IT NEEDED DRY FROM?
PAM- IT JUST SMELLED BAD AND I MADE HIM HAND IT OUT THERE IN THE SUN.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. AND YOU DON'T KNOW OF HIM CARRYING A CAT SKULL AT SCHOOL.
PAM- NO.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. DO YOU KNOW OF HIM HAVING ANY OTHER SKULLS?
PAM- NO.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. DO YOU KNOW WHY HE CARRIED A DOG SKULL TO SCHOOL?
PAM- UM, HE HAD TOLD ME THAT HE WAS GOING TO CARRY IT TO SCHOOL FOR, SOMETHING LIKE THEY HAD SHOW AND TELL. OR SOME TYPE OF SCIENCE PROJECT.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY.
PAM- AND HE ONLY CARRIED IT THE ONE DAY.
FOGLEMAN- DO YOU KNOW, IN THE, BACK ON THE RECORD. 10:53 A.M., SEPTEMBER THE 10TH. MS. HUTCHISON, DO YOU KNOW OF, WHEN YOU REFERRED TO THE YARD-MOWING INCIDENT, WALKING THERE, THAT YOU THOUGHT THERE WAS ANOTHER BOY NAMED KEN OR KENT...
PAM- UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN- DO YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT LITTLE BOY?
PAM- NO SIR, I SURE DON'T.
FOGLEMAN- ALRIGHT. DO YOU KNOW WHAT HIS LAST NAME IS?
PAM- NO, I DON'T. I'VE ONLY SEEN HIM A COUPLE OF TIMES.
FOGLEMAN- WHAT'S HE LOOK LIKE?
PAM- UM, HE'S SHORT AND HE'S GOT DARK HAIR. KIND OF BROWN, DARK BROWN HAIR.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. UM, DO YOU KNOW WHERE HE LIVES?
PAM- NO, I DON'T.
FOGLEMAN- HAS ANYBODY TOLD YOU WHERE THEY THINK HE LIVES?
PAM- UM, DAMION HAD MENTIONED AT ONE TIME THAT HE LIVED WITH HIS UNCLE OR SOME OF HIS KIN PEOPLE. I THINK THEY'RE AT LAKESHORE.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT KIND OF IQ DAMION'S GOT?
PAM- NO, BUT I UNDERSTAND HE HAS A PRETTY HIGH IQ.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHY HE DIDN'T CONTINUE IN SCHOOL AND...
PAM- UM, NOT REALLY, UM, HE AND THE LITTLE HOLCOMBE GIRL HAD RAN OFF AND UH,...I JUST WASN'T THAT COMFORTABLE WITH HIM BEING AT SCHOOL THERE. AND THEN HE WENT TO THE HOSPITAL AND THEN WE LEFT FOR OREGON AND HE WAS GOING TO GO BACK TO SCHOOL IN OREGON, BUT I DIDN'T WANT HIM TO.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. ALRIGHT, DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEM WAS BETWEEN DAMION AND DIANNA?
PAM- UM, THERE WASN'T A PROBLEM BETWEEN DAMION AND DIANNA. HER MOTHER JUST DIDN'T WANT HIM SEEING HER.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY.
PAM- CAUSE THEY WERE WANTING TO GET MARRIED.
FOGLEMAN- AND HOW OLD WAS HE AT THE TIME?
PAM- 16, I BELIEVE.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. DO YOU KNOW HOW OLD SHE WAS AT THE TIME?
PAM- 14.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. DO YOU EVER HEAR ANYTHING ABOUT THEM TRYING TO GET PREGNANT?
PAM- UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN- WHAT DID YOU HEAR ABOUT THAT?
PAM- I HEARD THAT SHE WANTED TO GET PREGNANT SO THAT HER MOTHER MIGHT LET THEM GET MARRIED.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. CAN YOU THINK OF ANYTHING ELSE THAT WE NEED TO COVER? IT'S NOW 10:56 A.M., THAT CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW OF PAMELA HUTCHISON.
